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GreyWolfActual
Catalyst Demo TeamPosts: 13386 LARP'ing is fun! 
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Today is our last vehicle out of the old TROs. Its been a fun journey to get to this vehicle and I’d like to think I saved a good one for last. That’s why we find ourselves at the Ripper.
The Ripper is quite the VTOL. It was designed for one purpose: deliver a squad of infantry to a battle, and then get out. Turns out, it was good at that and the Star League made good use of them. After the Star League fell the design was saved by an eccentric CEO of Cal-Boeing and once he got the desgin, he set forth making them. The AFFS, is a moment of unbridled stupidity, passed on the design, so he offered them to the Capellans, who eagerly accepted. After having had them used against them, Team Davion, and all the other houses, quickly began to buy their own, except the Free Worlds League. So today you can find them pratically anywhere. There is even a factory of them on Belladonna, so if you are running the defense of New Avalon, you can have as many as you want.
The Ripper is, as suggested above, a very good VTOL. It’s not a big VTOL, only ten tons, but that small size allows it do quite a bit. For starters, it allows it to have a blindingly fast speed of 12/18 with only a three ton fusion engine. Now that is a third of the design by mass, but the speed is well worth it, and the cost, as we shall see, is not hurt too much either.
Next, the Ripper is protected by a ton and a half of ferro armor. This used to be 27 points, but is now 26 in a 9/5/5/2 pattern. Its not quite twenty percent by mmass, but it is a fairly good coat for a ten ton vehicle. Still, the lost one point does hurt, preventing the frotn from taking two groups of five.
From here the ‘toys’ were added. The main goodies, the guns, are a pair of front mounted medium lasers. With a fusion engine on board these are a good choice. They’ve got power and a decent range. All this leaves one ton, which is the size of the cargo bay for the infantry squad.
The Ripper has also been ripe for modifications with its long, and very much varied, operational history. One variant I am suprised not to see is a non-ferro variant. Without ferro it becomes Tech Level 1 and thus perfectly logical for the Succession Wars. All you’d need to do is drop two points of armor, which I would take from the rear. Now, the real variants are quite plentiful. The first two variants are obvious and simple upgrades. Swapping the pair of mediums for a pair of ER Mediums or Small Pulse Lasers. Both have their advantages. You could even make your own non-canon one of one of each. Another interesting variant takes the lasers out and plants in a pair of machine guns with a full ton of ammo. That is an interesting choice, I’d only have done a half ton of ammo and then added more armor, but that’s just me, and it is admittedly a more troublesome upgrade.
Then we get to the two ‘big’ upgrades. The first is the Combine variant. The dropped in an XL engine and upped the armor in two ways. First they added a half ton and then they turned it into Heavy Ferro. This brought the armor up to thirty-nine points spread out 13/8/8/2. A much heavier coat that is for sure. More interestingly, the two mediums were pulled for a single LPPC. I’m not a fan of that, I’d much rather have infantry support weapons, not something with a three hex minimum range. The Lyrans took a similarly radical approach. They also added the XL engine, but drastically changed the cargo bay. They pulled a laser, added the extra tonnage and then even some armor, to get the cargo bay to four tons so it could carry a squad of Battle Armor. The remaining laser was turned into a small pulse, and the armor into Heavy Ferro for a twenty point 7/4/3/2 pattern. Its certainly a fast way of getting a squad of BA somewhere.
Cost wise the Ripper is a pretty good deal. It is a very interesting vehicle because under BV 1 it was not quite so cheap at 518. BV 2 dropped it to 340. It is a huge savings. Cost wise I’m at a bit of a crossroads. The record sheet I have on my computer says the cost is 282,222 C-Bills while MegaMek says 162,222. At exactly 120,000 C-bills it is a huge cost difference. Nevertheless, the Ripper is very cheap in the base config. RS:3050U did not grant us BVs or costs, so I cannot tell you how expensive the variants are. The base config, though, is pretty darn good for its price.
So if you zip in, drop off, and zip out you can get a pretty good VTOL that can also annoy the hell out of many of your enemies. It is a good VTOL and a good last original vehicle. Don’t worry, we’re not done yet though, next week is an intersting new unit from JHS:3072 (assuming I get a Christmas present that I was a witness to the purchase of).
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"My name is Saul Tigh, I'm an officer in the Colonial Fleet. Whatever else I am, whatever else it means, that's the man I want to be, and if I die today, its the man I'll be."
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Cannonshop
Demi-Precentor Mu/Psi IV Major Posts: 6384
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Today is our last vehicle out of the old TROs. Its been a fun journey to get to this vehicle and I’d like to think I saved a good one for last. That’s why we find ourselves at the Ripper. The Ripper is quite the VTOL. It was designed for one purpose: deliver a squad of infantry to a battle, and then get out. Turns out, it was good at that and the Star League made good use of them. After the Star League fell the design was saved by an eccentric CEO of Cal-Boeing and once he got the desgin, he set forth making them. The AFFS, is a moment of unbridled stupidity, passed on the design, so he offered them to the Capellans, who eagerly accepted. After having had them used against them, Team Davion, and all the other houses, quickly began to buy their own, except the Free Worlds League. So today you can find them pratically anywhere. There is even a factory of them on Belladonna, so if you are running the defense of New Avalon, you can have as many as you want. The Ripper is, as suggested above, a very good VTOL. It’s not a big VTOL, only ten tons, but that small size allows it do quite a bit. For starters, it allows it to have a blindingly fast speed of 12/18 with only a three ton fusion engine. Now that is a third of the design by mass, but the speed is well worth it, and the cost, as we shall see, is not hurt too much either. Next, the Ripper is protected by a ton and a half of ferro armor. This used to be 27 points, but is now 26 in a 9/5/5/2 pattern. Its not quite twenty percent by mmass, but it is a fairly good coat for a ten ton vehicle. Still, the lost one point does hurt, preventing the frotn from taking two groups of five. From here the ‘toys’ were added. The main goodies, the guns, are a pair of front mounted medium lasers. With a fusion engine on board these are a good choice. They’ve got power and a decent range. All this leaves one ton, which is the size of the cargo bay for the infantry squad. The Ripper has also been ripe for modifications with its long, and very much varied, operational history. One variant I am suprised not to see is a non-ferro variant. Without ferro it becomes Tech Level 1 and thus perfectly logical for the Succession Wars. All you’d need to do is drop two points of armor, which I would take from the rear. Now, the real variants are quite plentiful. The first two variants are obvious and simple upgrades. Swapping the pair of mediums for a pair of ER Mediums or Small Pulse Lasers. Both have their advantages. You could even make your own non-canon one of one of each. Another interesting variant takes the lasers out and plants in a pair of machine guns with a full ton of ammo. That is an interesting choice, I’d only have done a half ton of ammo and then added more armor, but that’s just me, and it is admittedly a more troublesome upgrade. Then we get to the two ‘big’ upgrades. The first is the Combine variant. The dropped in an XL engine and upped the armor in two ways. First they added a half ton and then they turned it into Heavy Ferro. This brought the armor up to thirty-nine points spread out 13/8/8/2. A much heavier coat that is for sure. More interestingly, the two mediums were pulled for a single LPPC. I’m not a fan of that, I’d much rather have infantry support weapons, not something with a three hex minimum range. The Lyrans took a similarly radical approach. They also added the XL engine, but drastically changed the cargo bay. They pulled a laser, added the extra tonnage and then even some armor, to get the cargo bay to four tons so it could carry a squad of Battle Armor. The remaining laser was turned into a small pulse, and the armor into Heavy Ferro for a twenty point 7/4/3/2 pattern. Its certainly a fast way of getting a squad of BA somewhere. Cost wise the Ripper is a pretty good deal. It is a very interesting vehicle because under BV 1 it was not quite so cheap at 518. BV 2 dropped it to 340. It is a huge savings. Cost wise I’m at a bit of a crossroads. The record sheet I have on my computer says the cost is 282,222 C-Bills while MegaMek says 162,222. At exactly 120,000 C-bills it is a huge cost difference. Nevertheless, the Ripper is very cheap in the base config. RS:3050U did not grant us BVs or costs, so I cannot tell you how expensive the variants are. The base config, though, is pretty darn good for its price. So if you zip in, drop off, and zip out you can get a pretty good VTOL that can also annoy the hell out of many of your enemies. It is a good VTOL and a good last original vehicle. Don’t worry, we’re not done yet though, next week is an intersting new unit from JHS:3072 (assuming I get a Christmas present that I was a witness to the purchase of). I guess 'good' is a relative term. it's a Quick VTOL, and it's got plating, but the weapons-fit makes it a suicide machine if you try to employ 'em, and the infantry bay means two or more turns before you can deploy a platoon of infantry-which locks it into the individual 'mechwarrior SAR mission unless you use Maxtech squad rules.
i.e. it's really only useful to have if you're playing the RPG, or you need a spotter for indirect fire. Once you close to the range of those lasers, it's a one-two count and you're gone, your TN bonus goes effectively out the window since you have no range modification even against LIGHT INFANTRY, and unlike other scout units of similar price, it doesn't carry advanced electronics that create force-multipliers.
weapons-positioning don't give it much help against other VTOLs, either-unlike, say, the Mantis which is good for chasing down other choppers and papercutting them, the Ripper's weapons are poorly positioned, and can't be concentrated on a target provided you survive getting into range.
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"It would be a stretch to say I hate people. I don't hate people, Hate requires too much emotional investment. I simply hold most people in apathetic contempt."
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Arkansas Warrior
Lieutenant Colonel Posts: 9909 Men fight most fiercely in defense of their Home.
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| Did anybody else notice that the rotor blades are unevenly spaced? As an Army Aviator, that's something that rather frightens me. |
Recipient of ColBosch's Pedant of the Month Award for February 2007, for Reply #27 here. 'shovels we have, shovels we will use, bayonet charge or not.'-Beachhead1973 FGC Personas: Galaxy Commander Carolus Magnus, Rho Galaxy, Clan Ghost Bear Field Marshal Nathaniel Hasek, Capellan March, Federated Suns.
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Sabelkatten
Major Posts: 4333 Kitty got guns!
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I guess 'good' is a relative term. it's a Quick VTOL, and it's got plating, but the weapons-fit makes it a suicide machine if you try to employ 'em, and the infantry bay means two or more turns before you can deploy a platoon of infantry-which locks it into the individual 'mechwarrior SAR mission unless you use Maxtech squad rules.
i.e. it's really only useful to have if you're playing the RPG, or you need a spotter for indirect fire. Once you close to the range of those lasers, it's a one-two count and you're gone, your TN bonus goes effectively out the window since you have no range modification even against LIGHT INFANTRY, and unlike other scout units of similar price, it doesn't carry advanced electronics that create force-multipliers.
weapons-positioning don't give it much help against other VTOLs, either-unlike, say, the Mantis which is good for chasing down other choppers and papercutting them, the Ripper's weapons are poorly positioned, and can't be concentrated on a target provided you survive getting into range.
The fact that squad deployment apparently has disappeared from the tournament rules can't really be held against the vehicle - I never had any problems deploying a whole platoon in one turn back when we were still playing FTF, I just had to do it in multiple hexes.
And what's wrong about a pair of front-mounted weapons? There really isn't any better placement for weapons on a VTOL IMHO! And against light forces it's a credible threat, usefull when supporting its deployed infantery.
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For your online game needs: TAKEAPLAY.NETYOUPLAY.ITThermodynamics for dummies: -You can't win, you can only break even. -You can only break even at absolute zero. -You can never reach absolute zero.
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Iron Mongoose
Lieutenant Colonel Posts: 6669 Do you feel like we do?
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| As expensive as it is, I really like the new Combine veriant. Good speed, range and armor (relitivly). Sure, the punch is not much, but it beats the pants of a Warrior. |
No more turning away from the weak and the weary No more turning away from the coldness inside Just a world that we all must share, its not enough just to stand and stare Is it only a dream that therell be no more turning away? Kindraa Leader Amy Lynn of the Fire Mandrills (FGC) Speaker for Parlament Priya Jhingan, FWL (FGC)
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Cannonshop
Demi-Precentor Mu/Psi IV Major Posts: 6384
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| oops, mixed it up with one of those variants... it's still short-ranged and exceptionally costly for what it does, though. |
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"It would be a stretch to say I hate people. I don't hate people, Hate requires too much emotional investment. I simply hold most people in apathetic contempt."
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GreyWolfActual
Catalyst Demo TeamPosts: 13386 LARP'ing is fun! 
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Did anybody else notice that the rotor blades are unevenly spaced? As an Army Aviator, that's something that rather frightens me.
Now uneven rotors seem like a bad idea to me. However, I'm just a history (and education) major, I never even took fizzics in high school. Can an uneven rotor helicopter even work? |
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"My name is Saul Tigh, I'm an officer in the Colonial Fleet. Whatever else I am, whatever else it means, that's the man I want to be, and if I die today, its the man I'll be."
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ColBosch
Colonel Posts: 21921 Burn the betrayers.
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| It can, but not well. Anyway, it's not deliberate (I hope). The new picture is better. |
Userbar by DougGlendower."I reject your reality and substitute it for Jello." - captainjohn
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Sabelkatten
Major Posts: 4333 Kitty got guns!
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oops, mixed it up with one of those variants... it's still short-ranged and exceptionally costly for what it does, though.
Well, it's a "we can afford an infinite number of units" SLDF design... But for a militia units I'd drop the engine to a 60 ICE (still 11/17 movement) and swap the MLs for a SRM2. Armor 10/5/2/2.
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For your online game needs: TAKEAPLAY.NETYOUPLAY.ITThermodynamics for dummies: -You can't win, you can only break even. -You can only break even at absolute zero. -You can never reach absolute zero.
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bsmart
Major Posts: 5183 First this biter biscuit. Then your soul.
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Now uneven rotors seem like a bad idea to me. However, I'm just a history (and education) major, I never even took fizzics in high school. Can an uneven rotor helicopter even work? Theoretically there's no real reason it can't work. Practically it'll rattle the ever loving piss out of the chopper and probably shake it self to pieces before it can even get off the ground. |
Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what the hell you're talking about. ColBosch:"The next person who uses the word "fiat" will be pistol-whipped." icchan: "Engineers are the rules lawyers of reality."
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Maelwys
Major Posts: 6195
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| To continue the trend, could the uneven rotor just be symbolic of the rotor turning really quickly? Kind of like when you look at a wheel spinning, or a fan spinning really quickly, but there are a few moments when you can just make out the spokes in a single position? |
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ColBosch
Colonel Posts: 21921 Burn the betrayers.
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No, it's just a poorly-drawn piece of art.  |
Userbar by DougGlendower."I reject your reality and substitute it for Jello." - captainjohn
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Jimmyray73
Lieutenant Posts: 1461 Warning: Bullets come out this end... 
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No, it's just a poorly-drawn piece of art.  Are you sure that "art" is the proper word to end the phrase "piece of..."? |
In fact, every day when I wake up, I have the watch commander comm me to say, 'You're a murderer, sir.' It's like my cup of coffee in the morning... (Poached shamelessly from GiovanniBlassini)
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cvb
Master Sergeant Posts: 334
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The AFFS, is a moment of unbridled stupidity, passed on the design, so he offered them to the Capellans, who eagerly accepted. After having had them used against them, Team Davion, and all the other houses, quickly began to buy their own, except the Free Worlds League. Isn't that a bit like Northrop telling the US AirForce "If you won't buy our F-20, we will just sell it to the Soviets. You don't mind, don't you?" ? |
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Peace is a purely theoretical state of affairs whose existance we deduce because there have been breaks between the fighting.
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GreyWolfActual
Catalyst Demo TeamPosts: 13386 LARP'ing is fun! 
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| A little, except that Cal-Boeing is not just Fed-Suns located. It has more interstellar functionality than just the FedSuns, not that that should help it in selling the design. |
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"My name is Saul Tigh, I'm an officer in the Colonial Fleet. Whatever else I am, whatever else it means, that's the man I want to be, and if I die today, its the man I'll be."
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Welshman
Manei Catalyst ModeratorPosts: 11621 We are the finders of your secrets 
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I'm suprised GWA that you look down on the Combine varient given what I've done with a Cyrano to you in MM. The LPPC version is the perfect edge sniper. Shooting around the edge of a battle and taking potshots all day long. He'll be the bane of your existance and the best you'll ever have to hit him is about a 9.
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GreyWolfActual
Catalyst Demo TeamPosts: 13386 LARP'ing is fun! 
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| Sure, I'll grant you that. But given what the Ripper was designed for, delivering a squad of infantry, the LPPC makes no sense. That's 10% of the vehicle by weight. If you're delivering infantry, especially the unarmored kind, you want them to have some sort of support, and an LPPC is terrible at that. |
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"My name is Saul Tigh, I'm an officer in the Colonial Fleet. Whatever else I am, whatever else it means, that's the man I want to be, and if I die today, its the man I'll be."
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Welshman
Manei Catalyst ModeratorPosts: 11621 We are the finders of your secrets 
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I got the impression the LPPC version ripped the infantry compartment out making it a gunship not a slick.
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GreyWolfActual
Catalyst Demo TeamPosts: 13386 LARP'ing is fun! 
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| Nope, the cargo bay is still there. |
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"My name is Saul Tigh, I'm an officer in the Colonial Fleet. Whatever else I am, whatever else it means, that's the man I want to be, and if I die today, its the man I'll be."
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Sabelkatten
Major Posts: 4333 Kitty got guns!
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Sure, I'll grant you that. But given what the Ripper was designed for, delivering a squad of infantry, the LPPC makes no sense. That's 10% of the vehicle by weight. If you're delivering infantry, especially the unarmored kind, you want them to have some sort of support, and an LPPC is terrible at that.
What's wrong with a LPPC as infantery support? Sure it's not close support, but on the other hand the chopper is much more likely to be around to fly the PBIs home again after the fight!
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For your online game needs: TAKEAPLAY.NETYOUPLAY.ITThermodynamics for dummies: -You can't win, you can only break even. -You can only break even at absolute zero. -You can never reach absolute zero.
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