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Precentor Martial
WriterPosts: 466 
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If you've not seen my "Tactical Operations: "Yeah, We've Got A Rule For That"" blog, go read it first. ;-)
Now that you've digest everything, feel free to post away with suggestions for potential additional Strategic Operations content.
Thanks!
Randall |
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Max Francis Vard
Major Posts: 3347 I wanna be bp_foster and Ian Sharpe when I grow up
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Will the types of battles fought in Battleforce be in an abstracted manner, like Combat Ops, where you have forces, and roll to determine the type of scenario they're in, with modifiers from how the campaign is going? The scenario list under 'Preparing for Play' makes me think so. I always thought it would be nice if I could tell a group of guys to go scout, guard, or assault something, and that might affect their entry map edge, forced withdrawal edge, map setup, etc.. Just puttin' it out there.
What about resources on a planet? Combat Ops talks about how water resources are usually the first seized in a planetary campaign. Any translation to Battleforce (perhaps under Command Points optional rules)? Other resources?
Repair rules in Battleforce 2 had the advantage of being streamlined(lose a convoy; fix a unit). Any chance of Advanced Rules destreamlining that to change cost differences between larger/smaller, heavier/lighter, more 'mech-y/less 'mech-y units?
"Mostly Dead Vs. Truly Dead" is win. Best title for a section in a book ever.
[edit]Would I be correct in assuming that I should be preparing questions for Interstellar Operations? |
Find me on myspace and xanga. Watch out celebrities! The year that took Gary Gygax and Charleton Heston isn't done yet!
Last Edit by Max Francis Vard
23 May, 2008, 17:03:31 pm
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Takiro
Captain Posts: 2310 For the Last Cameron! 
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Interstellar Operations 
What are we going to do tonight, TRY TO TAKE OVER THE INNERSPHERE  |
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Crunch
Captain Posts: 1705
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Since there aren't any campaign rules in the Tac Ops TOC I'll assume they'll be in SO?
Any chance we'll get a guide to setting up your own Warchest campaign in addition to the standard repair rules and the Battleforce rules? |
And if anyone asks, the Challenger's initials do not mean Main Battle Tank. It actually spells out to Monstrous Beatdown Truckzilla.
Weirdo
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Plainsfox
Major Posts: 5913
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| If they haven't resurfaced, would Strategic Operations be a good home for the old planetary creation rules from the back of Explorer Corps? |
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Bedwyr
Captain Posts: 1822 So Helpful!
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Since there aren't any campaign rules in the Tac Ops TOC I'll assume they'll be in SO?
Any chance we'll get a guide to setting up your own Warchest campaign in addition to the standard repair rules and the Battleforce rules?
Ditto. On the whole, (and I've said this before), the most difficult part of the enterprise will be the scaling up and scaling down. You lose information as you go "down" in granularity. More thoughts to come when I'm less weary. |
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BH-21
Lieutenant Posts: 1143 Star League Defense Force
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Excellent news!  He wasn't kidding when he said he wrote a lot on this one, and out plopped three rule books instead one. 
I'm not sure if this is the right thread, but have you included perimeter satelites (armed military drone satelites) and space mines? |
Last Edit by BH-21
24 May, 2008, 01:02:02 am
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Crunch
Captain Posts: 1705
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| Oh and is there any chance that we'll see a return of the AT2 "Radar Map" abstract ground support rules in one of these two books? |
And if anyone asks, the Challenger's initials do not mean Main Battle Tank. It actually spells out to Monstrous Beatdown Truckzilla.
Weirdo
Last Edit by Welshman
20 Jun, 2008, 10:47:51 am
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Takiro
Captain Posts: 2310 For the Last Cameron!
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Now that I've gotten a chance to calm down,  we were developing rules for strategic naval operations for our latest fanbook. Extended naval operations essentially. Refueling, repairs, and other supply operations during hostilities (total war setting of course like the Jihad) using auxilary ships (tenders and yard ships) . This might be better suited for Interstellar Operations but thought I would mention here.
What I'm curious about is strategic movements. Moving from one continent to another either via sub orbital drop or traditional march. A movement chart (miles or kilometers travelled per day) might be very helpful to facilitate force encounters. Can I get here moving across Terrian type A before the enemy does. |
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General308
Captain Posts: 1698
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| I am looking at the 3D rules. I am hoping that these can be done right this time. In my opinion these rules have always been made two complicated because of the one hex=1.5". This leads to a bunch of math that players must do for movement, range, and many other things which makes the rules a pain in the butt to use. The less math the better. The solution is simple. 1 hex = 1 inch. You get rid of all the conversion math that way. Is the movement scale? No but neither is one hex=1.5 inches nor or the minis in scale. So scale doesn't matter making the rules just as easy to use as the normal rules has to be the goal. Were you can switch over with out having to think to hard. |
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My Exile ends soon!
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nikita
Lieutenant Posts: 1131
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If you've not seen my "Tactical Operations: "Yeah, We've Got A Rule For That"" blog, go read it first. ;-)
Now that you've digest everything, feel free to post away with suggestions for potential additional Strategic Operations content.
I've played a lot of BatteForce lately during my latest RPG campaign. BattleForce works well in a game players are supposed to be soldiers in a large unit and each control a lance. Combat is resolved quickly which leaves more room for roleplaying in the same night. However, BattleForce 2 rules were tweaked as following:
1) Each unit in game was now an element rather than lance. This allows more movement in the game and offers chance to use more finely defined (GM created) terrain. This worked surprisingly well.
2) The PB/M/L range bands were found to be somewhat crude. We used a range band system that was taken from the AeroTech 2 Revised. We had S/M/L/EXT range bands (2/4/6/8 90-meter hexes). This was also a winner. Players liked this too and it was familiar from AeroTech.
3) The attack roll system worked just fine but losing a unit rather quickly as a mission kill was unsatisfactory. Thus we made a rule than whenever a unit was hit and it had lost its entire armour and inner structure, it was not a mission kill but was actually live and kicking. However, after this every single new point of damage caused a critical hit. This made your mech slightly more survivable but continuing combat with so many critical hits was dicey at best and thus walking home was better option. This does not add terribly much to game by itself but it was also popular.
4) We've been toying with an idea of making a saving throw (piloting roll) whenever your unit is hit (attacker has made a successful attack roll). The roll's target is increased with attacker's damage and decreased with your Structure (not what you have but what your mech should have). For example: a Thor B shoots at Marauder 5D in short range(with piloting 5 pilot rolling for a saving throw). MAD-5D pilot rolls at 5 (+5 for damage and -3 for structure) = 5+5-3 = 7. If she rolls 7 or more the marauder has avoided taking any damage. Despite the modifiers natural 2 and 12 mean always a hit/miss. This system makes rather neatly completely bad ass pilots very survivable (as they should be) and assault mechs very survivable (as they should be) and units without internal like tanks quite fragile (as game goes). However, the biggest bonus is that now it makes the landed DropShips very potent fortresses in the game (as they have been depicted). The real downside with this was that it slowed down the game somewhat. However, I suggest making this saving roll an advanced rule to be used at least with real fortresses and dropships but preferably with all units if players agree.
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Mercuito_Ralse
Corporal Posts: 64
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I've never gotten into Battleforce in any great detail, but has it been, or could it be possible in the future to handle conflict as a whole is the more abstract and be able to zoom in to CBT level for skirmishes of interest.
For example, running a planetary assault in battleforce, but using that info zoom in on CBT RPG PCs (I'm acronym happy) to give them action and detail and still allow them to give orders to the non-focal units? |
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Crunch
Captain Posts: 1705
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I've never gotten into Battleforce in any great detail, but has it been, or could it be possible in the future to handle conflict as a whole is the more abstract and be able to zoom in to CBT level for skirmishes of interest.
For example, running a planetary assault in battleforce, but using that info zoom in on CBT RPG PCs (I'm acronym happy) to give them action and detail and still allow them to give orders to the non-focal units?
It would be really keen if the system had provisions for zooming all the way up or down easily. So CBT/RPG level to Battle Force level to ISIF level with each effecting the other. |
And if anyone asks, the Challenger's initials do not mean Main Battle Tank. It actually spells out to Monstrous Beatdown Truckzilla.
Weirdo
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Vyper
Private Posts: 34
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I would like to see the rules for Mobile Shipyards from Explorer Corps in Strategic or Interstellar Operations. They were a good way of explaining how ComStar could field repair/refit it's ships and make Explorer Corps possible. Also some future TRO might have the description of Star League Newgrange Yard-Ship and ComStar Faslane Yard-Ship.
BattleForce is definitely a great addition and should be fast to play yet detailed enough.
Don't forget to add RPG elements in every aspect of the SO (like in the old books, there was always a section defining some new RPG additions for the CBT rules in the book).
Repair rules should definitely have a connection to RPG.
Regards,
Vyper. |
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H.B.M.C.
Warrant Officer Posts: 678
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Pilot Skills.
If didn't make the cut for TacOps (which doesn't make any sense), put them in StratOps rather than putting a little CBT section in the RPG. Don't want to have to buy an RPG book for CBT rules.
BYE |
Factions Owned: 2nd Sword of Light Jade Falcon 5th Battle Cluster (Epsilon Galaxy) Ghost Bear 7th Bear Regulars (Sigma Galaxy)
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Martius
Lieutenant Posts: 922 CAESAR VOS OBSERVAT
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Guns. Big Guns. Guns, Bombs and Missiles that really have an strategic impact on the game.
Rules for carpet bombing whole Mapsheets worth of terrain, using orbital bombardment for creative landscaping, MIRVs and of course rules to protect friendlies against those stuff.
Also I would like to see guidelines for NBC operations- kind of expanded hostile Enviroment rules from HB Marik(?) but more on a strategic scale(like how long does it take until that cloud of Sarin/Fallout/disease of unspeakable nastyness arrives in my troop's deployment zone).
It would nice to see an abstract ruleset for supply lines- like how can I supply forces operating on different continents, how can I use local infrastructure and industrial resources and so on.
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StCptMara
Major Posts: 3852 Protomechwarriors: Making this look GOOD!
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| Since I did not see them listed on the table of contents for TacOps, are we going to get rules for fires in SO? Or are they just not in the TacOps ToC, but in the book? |
Proud Blood Spirit Protomech Warrior
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JediBear
Colonel Posts: 13632 Some days the Bear gets banned.
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Are we going to see rules for world-level or system-level campaigns here?
I'd like to see rules detailing the difficulties of system-wide warship blockades, or the value of dropships in on-planet logistics, or...
...really a host of things I've barely begun to think about.
Like Battleforce for Battleforce. Or something. It's a level of gameplay that's always been missing or vaguely defined in Battletech, and SO is our last chance in a while to fix that.
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Scorpion
Master Sergeant Posts: 311
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I'd like to see a couple paragraphs on how pilots get thier mech assignments, surrender terms, ransoms of POWs (including consideration of rank and titles), dispossession, rights to salvage kills inside units (such as stories of techs amd dispossessed mechwarriors turned infantry getting mechs again in the Notable Pilots sections of the TROs), across the various ages of war in Classic Battletech.
S.
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GreenDragon
Major Posts: 6017 Dead or alive you're coming with me punk!
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I'd like to see a little more flexibility in BattleForce. To explain by way of Example: a Jenner has 7/11/5 MP, but in BF2 it is 7. Period. Its ability to jump doesn't come into play at all. Thus it has spent tonnage on something that isn't even granting it a +1 to hit penalty for its opponents. Ammo is another issue. Though I don't know how you can keep the simple one line of data/element and incorporate that kind of detail.
Also the individual elements idea comes in handy with C3. It does no good if all the elements of the C3 link are represented by a single counter - and thus are already at the same range.
Certain other advanced Tech also doesn't get represented well/at all under the existing rules. And Aero/Ground integration isn't great. |
FEDERATED SUNS - first and forever. I shall finally assume my rightful place in this budding democracy. Emperor! - The Brain Userbars by Notsonoble and xtrahmxwohld. Avatar by Rick F. Van Koert, used with permission
Last Edit by Welshman
20 Jun, 2008, 10:51:37 am
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AWPrime
Catalyst Demo TeamPosts: 4706 Fox Claw Mercs: Ripping Through Armor
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I see all those advanced rules for Aerospace combat, but I would like to see simplified rules and record sheets that would allow fast fleet scale battles.
Also Please allow space stations to have KF drives or allow people to convert warships into semi-space stations. |
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Rules serve canon, and not the other way around.
Fox Claw Mercenaries - Members of the Resistance
Clan Snow Raven: Delta Galaxy - with Suigintou as CSR poster girl
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wasp
Captain Posts: 1873
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I would like to see something detailing movement between planets or moons. Also, if it would be possible to throw in comments about in system jumps.
Wasp |
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mechgregor
Captain Posts: 2114 Hi
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| I'd like to see rules for constructing monitors. And for satellite orbital artillery. |
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HunterADA
Captain Posts: 2273
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Aerotech:
Teleoperated missiles may be fired on a "bearings only" shot. Little additional information is provided.
Can you fire it on a certain heading in the hope that 100 hexes out, it will end up in the same hex as somebody else and autoattack?
Can it be pre-programmed with certain commands? (Wait 5 turns, thrust for 1 turn at 10 thrust, wait 10 turns, turn end-for-end, thrust for 1 turn at 20 thrust)
Does this negate the 1 missile per launcher in flight at one time rule?
Can you fire it on a certain heading and begin issuing instructions to it at 51 hexes?
What happens if you're running away from a bigger, nastier ship, fire a teleoperated missile and it ends up 51 hexes away from you because of your movement?
High-speed engagements- there are two ways to fight in Aerotech. You can have a meeting engagement where both sides are at approximately the same velocity, or you can have a passing engagement that can take place at anything up to c-fractional speeds. The second is never defined. I'd presume you get to fire everything from one side of the ship and then (assuming you're still alive after closest point of approach) fire everything else. I also presume the faster ship gets to dictate how close CPA is.
As you close, do you fire off everything by weapons bands, or all at once based on CPA? By bands would make more sense, and it'd make a high-speed pass into a contest of nerves. (Pop the White Sharks at long range and hope for a lucky crit against the other guy's NAC/40s before they can shoot, or hold fire until you have a point-blank shot and have a better chance of really hurting him?) Would you have to pre-declare your firing pattern because of the eyeblink-fast engagement window?
What happens to missile and projectile weapons in that scenario? Does damage change based on the incredibly fast impact speed? What about accuracy since you're basically trying to throw the projectile into the path of the target?
Is AMS of any use whatsoever? How about screen launchers?
Inquiring (and possibly nuts) minds want to know! |
One periphery system. One state of the art Regimental Combat Team. One really polite neighborhood!
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General308
Captain Posts: 1698
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| I would like to see rules for construction of WMD's |
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My Exile ends soon!
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Mattlov
Catalyst Demo TeamPosts: 8930 ---------BACON--------
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| Is it going to be included anywhere in any book the C-Bill cost of bombs for fighters? |
Life is terminal in all known cases.
And if kids eat lead and get sick, then they maybe they shouldn't eat lead. Kids are cheap - it's easy to make more. - Darrian Wolffe
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Precentor Martial
WriterPosts: 466
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Will the types of battles fought in Battleforce be in an abstracted manner, like Combat Ops, where you have forces, and roll to determine the type of scenario they're in, with modifiers from how the campaign is going? The scenario list under 'Preparing for Play' makes me think so. I always thought it would be nice if I could tell a group of guys to go scout, guard, or assault something, and that might affect their entry map edge, forced withdrawal edge, map setup, etc.. Just puttin' it out there.
What about resources on a planet? Combat Ops talks about how water resources are usually the first seized in a planetary campaign. Any translation to Battleforce (perhaps under Command Points optional rules)? Other resources?
Repair rules in Battleforce 2 had the advantage of being streamlined(lose a convoy; fix a unit). Any chance of Advanced Rules destreamlining that to change cost differences between larger/smaller, heavier/lighter, more 'mech-y/less 'mech-y units?
"Mostly Dead Vs. Truly Dead" is win. Best title for a section in a book ever.
[edit]Would I be correct in assuming that I should be preparing questions for Interstellar Operations?
Yup. The vast majority of your questions are all for the "Inner Sphere in Flames, Strategic Game" that will appear in IO. As for your BattleForce questions, if you ever had a chance to play BattleForce 2 from the box set, that's the foundation off of which we expanded and fully fleshed out the BattleForce that will appear in SO.
Randall |
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Precentor Martial
WriterPosts: 466
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Since there aren't any campaign rules in the Tac Ops TOC I'll assume they'll be in SO?
Any chance we'll get a guide to setting up your own Warchest campaign in addition to the standard repair rules and the Battleforce rules?
There are "light" campaign rules in SO: i.e. linked scenarios, repairs and maintenance and so on. For 'true' campaign oriented game, that'll be in SO. As for the Warchest system, to be honest, the final decision of whether we'll include that in with everything else hasn't been made.
Randall |
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Precentor Martial
WriterPosts: 466
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If they haven't resurfaced, would Strategic Operations be a good home for the old planetary creation rules from the back of Explorer Corps?
As Welshman pointed out, yes, those rules (much expanded, of course) are slated for IO.
Randall |
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Precentor Martial
WriterPosts: 466
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Excellent news! He wasn't kidding when he said he wrote a lot on this one, and out plopped three rule books instead one. I'm not sure if this is the right thread, but have you included perimeter satelites (armed military drone satelites) and space mines?
Both of those are covered in TO.
Randall |
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Precentor Martial
WriterPosts: 466
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There's a Satellites heading under Advanced Support Vehicles in the Tac Ops ToC preview.
Edit
Oh and is there any chance that we'll see a return of the AT2 "Radar Map" abstract ground support rules in one of these two books?
Yes, that'll be found in SO: look for the "Abstract Aerospace System" in the SO outline in my blog.
RAndall |
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Precentor Martial
WriterPosts: 466
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It would be really keen if the system had provisions for zooming all the way up or down easily. So CBT/RPG level to Battle Force level to ISIF level with each effecting the other.
That is the single biggest goal of IO. In my opinion, it is the section least covered and generally covered the 'worst' in the past. A lot of time and effort is going to be poured into 'finally' doing it right.
Randall |
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