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rifleman101
Master Sergeant Posts: 345 Meh. 
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What sort of style is Capoeira? Is it useful in tight spaces (like hallways) or is it open area suited?
What about BJJ?
What sorts would you recommend in tight spaces and open spaces? What about mixed environments?
Does BJJ have any acrobatics and special punches? |
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Ian Sharpe
Lieutenant Colonel Posts: 7756 They say time is the fire in which we burn...
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| BJJ = Brazilian Jiu-jitsu? That's grappling and submission type stuff. Which is good, because IME, most real fights that don't involve weapons will go to the ground. Muay Thai would be good for a stand up type martial art in close spaces, or truthfully, any of the military developed ones. |
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship." Alexander Tyler
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Drop-Bear
Lieutenant Colonel Posts: 8394
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| Capoeira is a Dance (No seriously its as much if not more a Dance Style as a Fighting Art, the name translates as "The Dance of War") and as such requires lots of open space, it dose not use the upper body for anything but Balance and to support the body for Inverted maneuvers and Blocking. |
"Remember There Are No Stupid Questions - Just Stupid People." Mr. Morgan Blackhand. Drop-Bare: Koala Carnivores. Indigenous arboreal marsupial carnivore of Australia, though it closely resembles the Koala (Phascolarctos cinereys) it is in-fact a closer relative of the Tasmanian Devil (Sarcophius Ursinus). the Drop-Baer’s primary Diet is Cub Scouts and Tourists. "Catgirls breed like rabbits... and I have an unlimited bag licence.  " –Fallguy Founder: Fourth Succession War Veterans Association. Fourth Succession War Veteran: House Davion Fourth Succession War Veteran: House KuritaFourth Succession War Veteran: House Steiner Fourth Succession War Veteran: Mercenary
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nico
Sergeant Posts: 170 die my darling!
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For capoeira, think Eddy Gordo from the Tekken games.
I think BJJ will be much more usefull in real life. Personally I am a big fan of Wushu. |
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Wombat
Major General Posts: 41515 Save the Wombat...save the world 
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| The sad truth is in today's society, most fights that evolve beyond pushing and talking smack will end up on the ground, and even then, most won't last beyond 30 seconds at the max. The question you want to ask yourself is, what are you doing to prepare for that 30 seconds? Half-a-minute is a long time when your rolling around with a strange dude (or chick) on the ground. |
Slade: Think I could get Jimmy to teach me the Taming the Shrewd but wildly Ironic Wombat Fist technique?
Wombat: Probably, but you'd need a prosthetic limb afterwords.
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Falchion
Lieutenant Colonel Posts: 10973 Why...So...Fuzzless?
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| I'd go more for pankratos (Unsure about the spelling there) in that case. Yeah. The one were the wrestler tore the other wrestler's intestines out. Boy, those Greeks sure knew how to fight! |
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Alexander Raven
Warrant Officer Posts: 672 Rending Talons, Tearing Beak
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| Honestly, if your just looking for a self defense style of martial arts, I would suggest something simple to find and learn. Karate, tae-kwon-do, or judo are excellent starting points and will give an introduction to styles such as jiu-jitsu. I started with Tae-kwon-do in my early teens and moved up through different styles, including karate and jiu-jitsu, as I grew older. IMO, brazilian jiu-jitsu is over-rated as a selling point for the modern combat shows, though I would show great respect to someone that has taken the time to learn it well. While you want to learn jiu-jitsu, remember that it is not what they teach now, as the historical version was designed to incapacitate opponents in armor for the killing blow. Good luck and stay safe. |
Oath-Khan Alexander Raven, Clan Ghost Raven CO, Void Keshik Cluster "Heart of the Void""The Lost have fallen into the Abyss... Our Path shall give Us the strength to prevail... Now is the time for Our wings to embrace the Void... To shed the Darkness they have brought upon themselves..."Oh, I wish I were a Heavy Naval Cannon, that is what I truly want to be... 'Cause if I were a Heavy Naval Cannon, I'd blow up everything except for me...  Avatar by skiltao
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Bullgator
Major Posts: 4549
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Krav Maga...or any other form of military martial arts if you're wanting to learn actual self defense. Most of the martial arts styles i've seen taught in the US seem to be mainly for tournaments and shows, not a real fight where it's life or death.
Personally i'd go for a firearm, i'm not dumb enough to get into hand to hand fighting with anyone...and if I do, i'm going to stab them or bash them with any nearby objects. |
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rifleman101
Master Sergeant Posts: 345 Meh.
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Well, i thought i had the answers, but I'm back to the beginning... again.
Fluch.
Okay. Back to the character. Forget what I've told you about her past and personality.
Here is what you need to know.
She has a great deal of stamina, the kind useful for rugby and marathons. Its not just stamina, its willpower.
She is very strong, having been working out in one form or anther all her life.
Soccer as a striker from 5 to 14, lots of intensive running there.
Incidents happened, took up long distance running to take place of playing striker.
Incidents with abuse, encouraging her to take up martial arts. She is now heavily involved in two martial arts.
I'm looking for two. One that involves pins, and the possibility of breaking bones.
The second needs to be... something like Maui Tai maybe? Close range, fast paced, something that can defeat a good knife fighter with just your hands. Something that no mater where your opponent is opposed to where you are, you can hit him and hurt him from the early years of training. Back flips are NOT necessary.
Another nicety would be learning to fight with a club of some sort, be it in MA one or two.
She does not need to be a black belt in either (far from it), having started at age 14 and is currently age 17.
She is dedicated and works hard to pick it up.
She is fast, tough, and aggressive.
It doesn't need to be flashy, as long as it is effective and powerful.
I want to stay away with anything that i have had a phase with in the past (like break dancing, which i guess might rule out Capoeria)
It needs to be practical and realistic.
It needs to be taught in a dojo in a city LIKE San Fransisco.
San Fransisco is not important, it's just the point where the story starts out.
If somehow, Krav Maga could be fit in realistically, even if it takes place of one of the above two, that would be nice. The nasty version is preferable, but it needs to be realistic. I am trying to keep this character from being over the top.
Keep in mind that to get this far, she has taken plenty of falls. The reason she is so far is that she knows how to pick herself up after loosing a lot. In fact, she has lost many more fights than she has won.
What should the MA be, and how far along is she by your guess?
Also: I am sorry for not clarifying what i needed on my last search. I should have put a lot more effort into what i was saying.
Leave the details of how to me. I'm a creative person (in some ways) with a lot of friends to bug with other stuff.
Should i make a new thread? I don't like spamming.
EDIT: Gymnastics removed altogether. Replaced with other things. |
Last Edit by rifleman101
22 Jul, 2008, 00:17:34 am
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Drop-Bear
Lieutenant Colonel Posts: 8394
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As I said on the other Topic Savate is perfect for your Character. Stamina, Agility, Upper Body work, Lower Body Work. Advanced Forms can include Acrobatics, Weapons (Blades, Batons and Starves), Wrestling, Dirty Fighting. and the Form is established in Marvel Lore.
Pentjak Silat also is suitable though it contains less "Show" Maneuvers and to my knowledge hasn't bean covered in Marvel Comics to my knowledge. In Tom Clancy's "Net Force" the Female Lead practices Silat, and though silimpified the Novels have a good explanation of the Form(s) and explained how the Character learnt it from the Little Old Lady across the Street who learnt it from her family "Back in the Old Country" where even today in the 21st Century people are still walking out of the Jungle where they use it to Maim and Kill each other. |
"Remember There Are No Stupid Questions - Just Stupid People." Mr. Morgan Blackhand. Drop-Bare: Koala Carnivores. Indigenous arboreal marsupial carnivore of Australia, though it closely resembles the Koala (Phascolarctos cinereys) it is in-fact a closer relative of the Tasmanian Devil (Sarcophius Ursinus). the Drop-Baer’s primary Diet is Cub Scouts and Tourists. "Catgirls breed like rabbits... and I have an unlimited bag licence. " –Fallguy Founder: Fourth Succession War Veterans Association. Fourth Succession War Veteran: House Davion Fourth Succession War Veteran: House KuritaFourth Succession War Veteran: House Steiner Fourth Succession War Veteran: Mercenary
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Falchion
Lieutenant Colonel Posts: 10973 Why...So...Fuzzless?
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| I'd have to agree with Drop-Bear on this. And maybe it's just me but it seems like whenever people describe their characters, they always wind up in the rut of "fast, aggressive, and intelligent"... Can't we for once have a character who's as slow and dense as a brick, both literally and proverbially? |
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rifleman101
Master Sergeant Posts: 345 Meh.
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I am this close to crying.
Well not really, but... ah forget it.
Slow and dense as a brick... i think I've done a few similar characters, but that wouldn't fit with what i currently have. Also, i was trying to stay away from kick boxing, because almost everyone has it.
Thanks for the help guys. I think this has set me up with what i need. |
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Mad Malefactor
Lieutenant Posts: 1124 MacGyver
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What sort of style is Capoeira? Is it useful in tight spaces (like hallways) or is it open area suited?
What about BJJ?
What sorts would you recommend in tight spaces and open spaces? What about mixed environments?
Does BJJ have any acrobatics and special punches?
Hagana. Israeli MA training. Stuff is brutal. |
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HunterADA
Captain Posts: 2052
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Krav Maga...or any other form of military martial arts if you're wanting to learn actual self defense. Most of the martial arts styles i've seen taught in the US seem to be mainly for tournaments and shows, not a real fight where it's life or death.
Ditto. I lost horribly in my first and only karate tournament match. I lined up at the other guy, started moving in, and he made an off-balance, already retreating, limp-wristed, loose-fisted "punch" at me. I was a little confused by his technique and was even more confused when the match stopped because the official called it a point!
We returned to our starting positions and I made sure to watch my guard more carefully when closing. When I got in range, since we were using gloves, soft shoes and full padding, I attempted to blow through his ridiculous guard and hammer him through the wall. I mean, we're teenagers, we heal fast, and I'm not going to do anything worse than a bruise through all that protection. Par for the course when you leave yourself open like that. The official explained that unsportsmanlike combat would not be tolerated. 
There's a joke I've heard about Uechi Ryu that applies equally to most Okinawan karate styles I've seen- if you want to live to be a hundred, flexible, centered and at peace with yourself, practice Tai Chi. If you want to be the most dangerous forty year old cripple in the world, learn to fight in a Uechi Ryu dojo. It's a mixed style that involves a fair amount of long-range strikes from both hands and feet. Typically those strikes are intended as a means to close the gap, get inside the other guy's belt buckle (originally intended as "get inside the working range of the blade your peasant butt doesn't have") and work him over from there. Lots of fun, lots of bruises, and occasionally since then useful as all getout.
The sad truth is in today's society, most fights that evolve beyond pushing and talking smack will end up on the ground, and even then, most won't last beyond 30 seconds at the max. The question you want to ask yourself is, what are you doing to prepare for that 30 seconds? Half-a-minute is a long time when your rolling around with a strange dude (or chick) on the ground.
True, but IMHO also because that's the brawling methods people have learned and grown up with. Doing a head-down charge at someone trained to deal with that is an invitation to getting your neck broken. The better guys in the dojo could shatter someone's femur with a solid blow. In my admittedly limited and purely anecdotal experience, any fight that lasts thirty seconds past the first blow and has at least one person trained and mentally able to use that training is a fight where somebody is holding back for fear of criminal charges and lawsuits. |
One periphery system. One state of the art Regimental Combat Team. One really polite neighborhood!
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ko
Master Sergeant Posts: 263 ko!rific puddin'
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Krav Maga...or any other form of military martial arts if you're wanting to learn actual self defense. Most of the martial arts styles i've seen taught in the US seem to be mainly for tournaments and shows, not a real fight where it's life or death.
Personally i'd go for a firearm, i'm not dumb enough to get into hand to hand fighting with anyone...and if I do, i'm going to stab them or bash them with any nearby objects.
Right on!  |
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Drop-Bear
Lieutenant Colonel Posts: 8394
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..... And maybe it's just me but it seems like whenever people describe their characters, they always wind up in the rut of "fast, aggressive, and intelligent"... Can't we for once have a character who's as slow and dense as a brick, both literally and proverbially?
You've never heard of T.K. the Telekinetic Girl. Very accurately described as a Super Powered Bimbo, though naturally very smart she has never had to apply herself so end of the day she is dumb as a pigeon (without her families money she would have never finished High School), literally Hench Men (and the occasional Goon) out think her on a regular basis, without her Powers she has problems pushing open the double doors to her Uni class rooms (just an other reason for her to cut class), she is cute (but not sexy) and although in her late teens looks in her mid teens as she is short and flat chested (and she excepts her body image). and as for aggressive no way, all this hero stuff is just a game that occasionally gets in the way of her social life. |
"Remember There Are No Stupid Questions - Just Stupid People." Mr. Morgan Blackhand. Drop-Bare: Koala Carnivores. Indigenous arboreal marsupial carnivore of Australia, though it closely resembles the Koala (Phascolarctos cinereys) it is in-fact a closer relative of the Tasmanian Devil (Sarcophius Ursinus). the Drop-Baer’s primary Diet is Cub Scouts and Tourists. "Catgirls breed like rabbits... and I have an unlimited bag licence. " –Fallguy Founder: Fourth Succession War Veterans Association. Fourth Succession War Veteran: House Davion Fourth Succession War Veteran: House KuritaFourth Succession War Veteran: House Steiner Fourth Succession War Veteran: Mercenary
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cobrausn
Lieutenant Posts: 1300 Our health benefits are great. Just not for you.
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| Be careful with styles that emphasize grappling (BJJ) to the exclusion of others. Grappling is, without a doubt, the best way to handle a one-on-one fight if you are good at it and about as big as the other guy. If there is more than one guy, grappling will get you killed. Go Krav Maga. Hell, they teach it in Israel with the expectation of fighting an angry mob using it (and winning/coming out alive). Can't argue with that. |
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Mad Malefactor
Lieutenant Posts: 1124 MacGyver
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Be careful with styles that emphasize grappling (BJJ) to the exclusion of others. Grappling is, without a doubt, the best way to handle a one-on-one fight if you are good at it and about as big as the other guy. If there is more than one guy, grappling will get you killed. Go Krav Maga. Hell, they teach it in Israel with the expectation of fighting an angry mob using it (and winning/coming out alive). Can't argue with that.
Yeah. BJJ can be pretty silly at times. Especially, like you said, on different sized opponents.
They teach folks to tie up a big guy, which, in THEORY, makes sense. Take away his reach advantage. in PRACTICE, all your doing is willingly putting yourself in knee and elbow strike range, with your arms more concentrated on holding the opponent then covering ribs and skull. |
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TylerDurden
Major Posts: 3677 You big tourist, I need this forum, now get out!
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True, but IMHO also because that's the brawling methods people have learned and grown up with. Doing a head-down charge at someone trained to deal with that is an invitation to getting your neck broken. The better guys in the dojo could shatter someone's femur with a solid blow. In my admittedly limited and purely anecdotal experience, any fight that lasts thirty seconds past the first blow and has at least one person trained and mentally able to use that training is a fight where somebody is holding back for fear of criminal charges and lawsuits.
I agree. In a match between an untrained brawler and someone with training, the guy with training is probably going to dictate exactly how the fight will end, and it's unlikely that it will be on the ground. Definitely correct about the lawsuits. If you deliver too much injury to the guy, suddenly YOU'RE the agressor. I hate our justice system sometimes.
More to the original topic, Krav Maga is definitely good for tight quarters, but you won't get that training in America (to my knowledge). TKD can be very practical and useful in tight quarters, but there's also a lot of stuff that's just for show unless you are VERY dedicated and practice the stuff every day. You just need to know what works for you and perfect it. |
If it wasn't for disappointment, I wouldn't have any appointments. -- They Might Be Giants
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HunterADA
Captain Posts: 2052
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Another random thought on fighting- a huge part of it is how you answer the question "How far are you willing to go?"
If your answer is "Huh? We're fighting. The only rule is "I win," though I wouldn't mind an ear to take home as a souvenir," then you have a monstrous advantage over another person whose experience has been trading punches until somebody gets a black eye.
Getting kicked around a few times as the OP mentions for his character could influence how dirty someone fights and how long it takes them to get there. |
One periphery system. One state of the art Regimental Combat Team. One really polite neighborhood!
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rifleman101
Master Sergeant Posts: 345 Meh.
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Man i'm learning a ton from this. I should bug you more often about stuff.
She doesn't learn Krav Maga until later, say nine or ten chapters later. In the mean time, I'm thinking of Kali (Eskrima) for the hand to hand and the stick fighting (one of her starting weapons is a stun baton, think the CP stick from HL2) and Aikido for the pinning. What do you guys think?
Also, if Aikido is not for joint holds, what should i have in place? |
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Drop-Bear
Lieutenant Colonel Posts: 8394
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Salit has Locks (Usually as a precursor to braking off the thing locked), Chin Na is a Locking style that was born in the Shaolin Temple around the same time as Kung Fu.
Edit: Aikido dose have a lot of what your looking for as dose it's perant Styles Aiki-jūjutsu, Judo (less so) and Jujutsu. Aikido and Jiudo look too pasave for what you have said about the character and outside Japan it's tough to find a Aiki-jūjutsu Sensi that woun't filiter their students throw Aikido first.
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"Remember There Are No Stupid Questions - Just Stupid People." Mr. Morgan Blackhand. Drop-Bare: Koala Carnivores. Indigenous arboreal marsupial carnivore of Australia, though it closely resembles the Koala (Phascolarctos cinereys) it is in-fact a closer relative of the Tasmanian Devil (Sarcophius Ursinus). the Drop-Baer’s primary Diet is Cub Scouts and Tourists. "Catgirls breed like rabbits... and I have an unlimited bag licence. " –Fallguy Founder: Fourth Succession War Veterans Association. Fourth Succession War Veteran: House Davion Fourth Succession War Veteran: House KuritaFourth Succession War Veteran: House Steiner Fourth Succession War Veteran: Mercenary
Last Edit by Drop-Bear
23 Jul, 2008, 18:26:13 pm
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DIREWOLF75
Warrant Officer Posts: 515
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Krav Maga...or any other form of military martial arts if you're wanting to learn actual self defense. Most of the martial arts styles i've seen taught in the US seem to be mainly for tournaments and shows, not a real fight where it's life or death.
Personally i'd go for a firearm, i'm not dumb enough to get into hand to hand fighting with anyone...and if I do, i'm going to stab them or bash them with any nearby objects.
Krav maga has its own drawback though, people using it tend to get really messed up if the opponent is good at defense combined with counterattacks.
Hagana. Israeli MA training. Stuff is brutal. Thats probably Krav maga and yes it can be quite brutal. But brutal doesnt equate better.
Grappling is, without a doubt, the best way to handle a one-on-one fight if you are good at it and about as big as the other guy. Pft... I can throw people twice my weight with ease. And in training i certainly didnt want to get thrown by someone half my size, but guess what, happened anyway.
Thats kinda one of the points with most MAs, you´re supposed to substitute size and weight with SKILL.
And it works quite well. If you CANT throw someone twice your size, you´re either doing something very wrong, or the other person is so skilled that you might as well just try to run for it...
Well, i thought i had the answers, but I'm back to the beginning... again. Considered a swordstyle?
The second needs to be... something like Maui Tai maybe? Close range, fast paced, something that can defeat a good knife fighter with just your hands. Ninjutsu, Sambo, Aikido, Jujutsu, Wushu(Sanshou)... Ninjutsu is the most allround i think.
Something that no mater where your opponent is opposed to where you are, you can hit him and hurt him from the early years of training. Thats probably not the easiest thing to ask for... The people that have trained long in most martial arts tend to be of the kind "-hey where did he go? oow! oh, there..."... As a beginner, even after a couple of years training, its just very very hard to do anything serious against the "vets".
I'm looking for two. One that involves pins, and the possibility of breaking bones. Well, depends on wether is meant to be intentionally or not... 
Basically the same list as i gave above, except maybe Wushu, but definetly including Judo instead.
Though Aikido and Jujutsu may not suit an agressive temperament...
What should the MA be, and how far along is she by your guess? Go Putin-style and pick Judo and Sambo. 
Ninjutsu and Sambo might be a very nasty combination and not colliding with each other too much either.
3 years working hard at both arts, well if she´s really focusing really good on MA training and somehow gets the chance to do so(maybe training both arts twice weekly and constantly rather than the commonly used terms) she might be 1-2 years from black belt...
Something to remember though is that black belt means, basic training done, nothing else.
EDIT: Gymnastics removed altogether. Replaced with other things. Mmm soccer doesnt give nearly as allrounded strength as gymnastics though. And gymnastics IS exceptionally good as a starter for most martial arts.
Man i'm learning a ton from this. I should bug you more often about stuff. Im sure we dont mind...
She doesn't learn Krav Maga until later, say nine or ten chapters later. In the mean time, I'm thinking of Kali (Eskrima) for the hand to hand and the stick fighting (one of her starting weapons is a stun baton, think the CP stick from HL2) and Aikido for the pinning. What do you guys think? Eskrima is very little hand to hand, but otherwise id say its a good idea, and its also focused on swords, well bladed weapons more like maybe, IIRC.
Aikido is a good choice. Includes alot more than just pinning.
Still neither of those above really goes alot into hand to hand fighting. Ninjutsu could be an alternative for Eskrima in that it has alot of training with short staff if you want that, while also adding things otherwise left out by your combination.
Also, if Aikido is not for joint holds, what should i have in place? Judo, Sambo and jujutsu. Or maybe back to BJJ? |
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This has been an objective and completely impartial message from the propaganda bureau of DIREWOLF75. Thank you for reading. Have a nice day.
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rifleman101
Master Sergeant Posts: 345 Meh.
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I'm tying to stay away from stereotypes, because every time you see an MA movie, it usually has BJJ and something similar to boxing. I'm trying to go for something specialized and rather unique. Something you don't see coming.
The reason i dropped gym was i thought it made my character too powerful too early on. I kept soccer because as a striker, she has a lot of energy, stamina, and speed that she builds. Physical fitness and toughness.
What i've seen from Kali is the hand to hand is very fast and at short range, like in The Bourne Identity. Thats what I'm looking for. And this Chin Na stuff sounds' good.
Jerusha has very a very simple view to a street fight: if someone tries to fight with her, say a street thug, she doesn't care what happens to him really. He attacked her regardless of what was said, and since that makes him the aggressor, breaking bones and snapping tendons is very acceptable. Killing is something she would not rather think about at all, but if she had to do it, she would. After all, they have been warned.
It may seem immature to have a 'don't mess with me' be the only warning, but Jerusha doesn't really care. When it comes to survival, she comes first and foremost. Everyone else is secondary.
Another reason i got rid of gym was because i cant see Jerusha doing flips. I really cant. She's a magician, not a warrior's warrior. (this is in the X-men reality, and she relies on a wide arsenal and nasty MA instead of purely godlike MA killer moves. Whatever gets the job done.)
Also, she doesn't care too much about making enemies, because her mutation is an involuntary survival mutation.
In short: Mean, nasty, close in, can handle knives, and hurt people by bending limbs in directions where they aren't supposed to go. (As for guns, she has other solutions to that) |
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DIREWOLF75
Warrant Officer Posts: 515
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Jerusha has very a very simple view to a street fight: if someone tries to fight with her, say a street thug, she doesn't care what happens to him really. He attacked her regardless of what was said, and since that makes him the aggressor, breaking bones and snapping tendons is very acceptable. Killing is something she would not rather think about at all, but if she had to do it, she would. After all, they have been warned. Just my style...
I'm tying to stay away from stereotypes, because every time you see an MA movie, it usually has BJJ and something similar to boxing. I'm trying to go for something specialized and rather unique. Something you don't see coming. Just dont OVERdo the "unique", or you could find yourself not getting something you want because you want to avoid something you might not want...
Or pick a few stereotypes then simply cut´n´paste from them what you want... Movies and TV-series do that all the time, when done well the result is usually excellent.
like in The Bourne Identity. Word of warning, dont take ANY moviefighting as any sort of hint about martial arts...
See this:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Flynning |
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rifleman101
Master Sergeant Posts: 345 Meh.
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The style, the speed, the things they do! I cant flyn in a fight, in my fights, the only time my character would hit the other's weapon is to stop a blow. Waste not, and all that.
Basically I'm trying to find something that people will look at and think is cool and unique, not something that either everyone has done or something no one in their right mind would do.
I'll be careful. I swear! |
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