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El chico de los pollos
Site Maintenance
Posts: 20420
¿Quién es más plumoso?
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Attached is the transcript form this morning's public BattleCorps chat. Enjoy!
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Colonel
Posts: 13690
Tali'Zorah is mah Tech Priest
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danke
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CamoSpecs
Posts: 8217
I'm looking at YOU, Marconi!
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Looks like it's time to enter "agressive negotiations" with Topps.  |
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Captain
Posts: 1860
Member of the Legion of the Batshit Insane
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Looks like it's time to enter "agressive negotiations" with Topps. At least they didn't sell it to someone else... *sigh* One day...!  |
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Captain
Posts: 1671
Dante's 7th Armored Cav.
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At least they didn't sell it to someone else... *sigh* One day...! Right, and at least via WizKids they seemed to be fine with how Catalyst was handling things. At the very least this means things hopefully will continue like they were, instead of having to possibly start dealing with a brand new license holder. |
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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 10042
You Can't Take the Sky From Me.
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Thanks for the transcript. Is it my imagination, or is it fancier this time?
Biggest thought: Core books spines. They are listed as: RPG-Clan, IO-C*, Universe-Liao. Personally, I think this would make more sense:
Universe Book - C*. The "Neutral" party that looks at everything and everyone.
IO - Clan. When they arrived they brought the entire IS together against them. (Though C*/WoB also fits with the Jihad, I just see them amking more sense on the UB).
RPG - Liao. Mostly because they are the one that's left. also, it is book 5 and 1-4 were the other 4 Houses. And they are known for subtle manipulations and guile over military strength.
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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 7302
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*yawns* back to point based characters. Let me get my cookie cutter.
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El chico de los pollos
Site Maintenance
Posts: 20420
¿Quién es más plumoso?
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Thanks for the transcript. Is it my imagination, or is it fancier this time?
It's formatted the same as the last few have been. |
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Freelancer
Posts: 17095
How's it sit? Pretty cunning, don't you think?
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*yawns* back to point based characters. Let me get my cookie cutter.
That's not what Herb said about character creation in the chat. It will still be driven by lifepaths instead of a pure point-based system. When you have that sort of background development built into character creation, you should be able to avoid cookie cutter characters unless you strive to strip them of personality and history. |
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M.U.L. Team
BT Volunteer
Posts: 26305
Errata Monkey
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*yawns* back to point based characters. Let me get my cookie cutter.
Oh, really? Hate to be blunt, but you're wrong. If your only experience is with the MechWarrior series, well, 2e was a dog's breakfast anyway. However, most systems built around point builds are astonishingly varied...and their detractors whine about about how it's impossible to build adventures around them. Or the new RPG could use fixed character classes. That'd be awesome.  |
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Warrant Officer
Posts: 662
Have talons, will travel.
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Lifepaths aside, I for one am still disappointed to see the events go; they led to more or less a fully realized and usually sensible backstory with some nice highlights from the get-go. In my experience, it was a huge advantage for detailing characters for players who might otherwise lack a comprehensive familiarity with the BattleTech universe.
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M.U.L. Team
BT Volunteer
Posts: 26305
Errata Monkey
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Lifepaths aside, I for one am still disappointed to see the events go; they led to more or less a fully realized and usually sensible backstory with some nice highlights from the get-go. In my experience, it was a huge advantage for detailing characters for players who might otherwise lack a comprehensive familiarity with the BattleTech universe.
Nobody has said that. I was addressing one misinformed comment about point-based systems. Cray covered that lifepaths will still be in there, as Herb has stated before. |
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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 7302
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Meh. It's still point buy when you look at the heart of it. Buy affiliation, buy life paths, buy skills and buy attributes. If you want to build a character who's an urbanmech, that's what you're going to get. If you want to build a character that's equal to a Timberwolf, that's what you're going to get.
With random rolls, you get alot of other options. Perhaps you started out with a Timberwolf and wound up with a Brigand instead. Perhaps you like that concept for your character, perhaps you don't. I like having those options and I think that Random events were worth it.
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Warrant Officer
Posts: 662
Have talons, will travel.
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Nobody has said that. I was addressing one misinformed comment about point-based systems. Cray covered that lifepaths will still be in there, as Herb has stated before.
I said "lifepaths aside" because I understand they will still be there. However: For another, Life Paths are being extensively remodelled to eliminate randomness; you can still build characters by background, but event tables are going away. Sure sounds to me like events are going away. |
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M.U.L. Team
BT Volunteer
Posts: 26305
Errata Monkey
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Ah, I see. Then I misunderstood, The Hawk. My apologies. Meh. It's still point buy when you look at the heart of it. Buy affiliation, buy life paths, buy skills and buy attributes. If you want to build a character who's an urbanmech, that's what you're going to get. If you want to build a character that's equal to a Timberwolf, that's what you're going to get.
With random rolls, you get alot of other options. Perhaps you started out with a Timberwolf and wound up with a Brigand instead. Perhaps you like that concept for your character, perhaps you don't. I like having those options and I think that Random events were worth it.
The hell with that. I want to play the character *I* want to play. I've played enough lame random character creation systems to be completely sick of them. But, I can see this is just a difference of opinion, so no real need to ague it.  |
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Lieutenant General
Posts: 25877
Avatar By Wombat
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due to the immense value of the properties? outside of the video games which MS owns the rights too.. what on earth do they mean by that?!
sounds like topps decided that if they couldn't get CGL and Pinata in a bidding war they didn't wanna sell... bastards
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M.U.L. Team
BT Volunteer
Posts: 26305
Errata Monkey
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due to the immense value of the properties? outside of the video games which MS owns the rights too.. what on earth do they mean by that?!
sounds like topps decided that if they couldn't get CGL and Pinata in a bidding war they didn't wanna sell... bastards
Wow. Jump to conclusions much? |
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Lieutenant General
Posts: 25877
Avatar By Wombat
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Wow. Jump to conclusions much?
what can I say my faith in humanity is low. let's face it, CGL is the only people who WANT CBT, and CBT/SR while sucessful from a gaming prespective are barely a trickle for a company like topps. I think it's a safe guess that Topps expected unreal;istic profits from the sale |
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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 10042
You Can't Take the Sky From Me.
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btw, unless it returned when I wasn't looking the last thread to discuss that topic is still mia, we should probably steer clear of it in this particular thread. Having the transcript go mia would suck for those who haven't read it yet. It's formatted the same as the last few have been.
The headers and page numbers seem new to me. I guess I failed a perception check on the last couple. |
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Major
Posts: 3508
Solidarity, Brother
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I have no problem with what BrianDavion said, but I'm not putting a dastardly spin on it. I think its as good a guess as any (and it may be wrong, it may be right, maybe it's the guy you're looking for... er, nevermind <turns pandora off>) and I have absolutely no problem with Topps' ethics in doing so. It's analogous to a homeowner pulling the house off the market because they got too few bids that were too low. No big deal.
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Freelancer
Posts: 17095
How's it sit? Pretty cunning, don't you think?
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With random rolls, you get alot of other options. Options that are easy to replicate in any other character generation system. Perhaps you started out with a Timberwolf and wound up with a Brigand instead. You can do that with non-random character creation, too. You get the write story of your character as you want it - if you want to lose a Timberwolf for Brigand, do it. Writing an unhappy background to a character is fun - not every PC has a perfectly happy background. Heck, if you can't decide on your character's background, roll for it, it's your choice. But at least it sounds like the random events aren't being rammed down your throat this time. If you want random, it's your choice, not your obligation. |
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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 7302
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For another, Life Paths are being extensively remodelled to eliminate randomness; you can still build characters by background, but event tables are going away. Please tell me how to do that when it is being removed from the system? Edit: Replying and editing are not the same thing >< |
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Colonel
Posts: 13690
Tali'Zorah is mah Tech Priest
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Heck I go for as many issues as standard for my characters (Like a D&D monk with MPD. He/They argued) It's all about roleplay for the RPG, not being pigeonholed into x, y and z for my character and playing towards it. Makes it kind of boring. Please tell me how to do that when it is being removed from the system? Mix and match the old random paths to the new set of rules. |
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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 7302
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Mix and match the old random paths to the new set of rules.
Ahh....but Catalyst here wants me to buy a new set of RPG rules. If I am sticking to the old rules, why should I buy the new rules? Why should I give Catalyst more money for an RPG I won't touch? That's the issue here. Sell me on the new RPG. Make me want it. If you can't do that... |
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Lieutenant
Posts: 832
Nelson's Longbows, Defenders of New St. Andrews
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Ahh....but Catalyst here wants me to buy a new set of RPG rules. If I am sticking to the old rules, why should I buy the new rules? Why should I give Catalyst more money for an RPG I won't touch? That's the issue here. Sell me on the new RPG. Make me want it. If you can't do that... You call using a tiny part of the old RPG system "sticking to the old rules"? The new rules will hopefully be better and therefore worth the purchase, not that it is up the fans to convince you on what to buy anyway. Please tell me how to do that when it is being removed from the system? It's called imagination. Do you really need a random occurrence to tell you to subtract a point from an attribute and give your character one arm? No, of course not. The random events i found an annoyance, i want to create my character, not my character with random disabilities. |
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BattleTech
BattleTech Developer
Posts: 10189
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Sooooo, you want me to say more, or something?
- Herb
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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 10042
You Can't Take the Sky From Me.
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To be perfectly honest, I'm not enthused about the loss of event rolls, and I really don't like going back to D6s (though I note Herb only said "D6s" not "2D6"). At present, I'm still planning my next campaign using my MW3.5 House Rules. This could change when more info is available, and I'll almost certainly buy the core book. But unless it really is the promised "please everybody" book, I will not likely be buying any supplements. Sooooo, you want me to say more, or something?
- Herb
Yes please. |
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Freelancer
Posts: 17095
How's it sit? Pretty cunning, don't you think?
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Please tell me how to do that when it is being removed from the system? Removed from the system? Random events are based on the setting, not rules. So long as you have Houses, Clans, MechWarriors, 1000 years of future history and all the rest, you can always have random events for your PCs. Just scribble down some funny things that might happen to a PC (or use the old random event tables, they're as good as any), assign them numbers on the dice combination of your choice, and roll away. |
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Captain
Posts: 2511
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Look I like random events. That being said not everyone enjoys being forced to start a brand new game with a character that has been crippled by some event. Some people would rather let game play cripple the character. To some people the point of an RPG is to play a character that come up with not the one the dice comes up with. Not that there is anything wrong with either system. I personaly don't mind haven't to play a character that is crippled. But I have found a lot of people don't want to play a game were they spend all that time and then get a character they hate. The random events leaves that as something that can happen. So I would think moving away from the random events would make more people give the game a shot.
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Freelancer
Posts: 17095
How's it sit? Pretty cunning, don't you think?
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The random events leaves that as something that can happen. So I would think moving away from the random events would make more people give the game a shot.
And you can always create random life event tables. Has it not been a staple of RPGs since the most archaic forms of DnD that GMs create random event tables to surprise their players? |
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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 7302
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You call using a tiny part of the old RPG system "sticking to the old rules"? The new rules will hopefully be better and therefore worth the purchase, not that it is up the fans to convince you on what to buy anyway. Heh. In due deference, I'm only speaking about from what I've read. Am I not entitled to share my opinion I should not be asked to spend money on things that will improve, instead of hopefully improve, don't you agree? A feature I like has been removed. I am dismayed at this. It's called imagination. Do you really need a random occurrence to tell you to subtract a point from an attribute and give your character one arm? No, of course not. The random events i found an annoyance, i want to create my character, not my character with random disabilities.
You've never tweaked the rules? you've never fudged dies? You've never had a GM say "Gee, my attention was elsewhere. I didn't see you roll. Please roll again." I swear, I've never rolled a character for a friend for a campaign. I've always asked them what they wanted for their character and picked or modified results as appropriate. Herb, you may want to put that old line back into the rulebooks.... Removed from the system? Random events are based on the setting, not rules. So long as you have Houses, Clans, MechWarriors, 1000 years of future history and all the rest, you can always have random events for your PCs. Just scribble down some funny things that might happen to a PC (or use the old random event tables, they're as good as any), assign them numbers on the dice combination of your choice, and roll away.
Cray, keep out of sales. You're not doing a good job. I'm not going to buy an RPG if I have to reinvent sections of it. Sooooo, you want me to say more, or something?
- Herb
Yes please. I'd be interested in hearing more. |
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Lieutenant
Posts: 832
Nelson's Longbows, Defenders of New St. Andrews
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You've never tweaked the rules? you've never fudged dies? Of course, i prefer fun, choice and freedom in an RPG rather than having everything decided by the roll of the dice. That's why i would never use the random event tables, at least as an actual random occurrence. I would much prefer a list of benefits and detriments incorporating that sort of thing and at the end of the day i see no point to having tables with events a player can easily replicate themselves. I simply don't see that there is anything being lost here. |
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