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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 8793
Da me mas Gasolina

Mech of the Week: Rifleman

Mech of the Week: Rifleman

As one of the unseen (and then re-seen, and then un-unseen, and then re-unseen…) the Rifleman is one of the oldest and most storied mechs in the game, and in the second case, its story includes one of the single most famous canon mechs in the infamous Legend Killer.  Staring in one of the earliest novel series, the Legend Killer awoke all our interest in the Rifleman, in what it could do, and in what it could not do.  The idea of the tissue paper rear armor, the massive heat problems, the limited ammo for the canons, and yet also the idea of an unpopular mech that could punch above its weight, that could overcome its problems of maneuverability, and that could catapult two skilled warriors to champion of Solaris. 

But this article is not about Legend Killer.  In the sense that I hope to uncover the real Rifleman, this article will serve as a sort of legend killer itself.  Legend Killer after all was quite an odd mech, with its Urbi-like AC10s pared with LLs, its potential to have been a Rifleman 2, its retention through all that of the sliding glass rear armor of more primitive Riflemen.  In the sense that it behaves as a Rifleman should, in many ways it’s no more a Rifleman than Yen Lo Wang was a proper Centurion.  Let this then, be the last word on it.

The real Rifleman, the mech that people think of when they hear the name, is the Rifleman 3N.  The classic.  The original.  In many minds, mine especially, the one and only.  It almost needs no introduction.  Sixty tons.  Paired Autocannons (AC5s), paired LLs, two mediums snuck into the torso just in case, 7.5 tons of armor, the base heatsinks and the standard movement for a heavy mech of the day.  In many senses this is a great mech.  It can strike out to 18 hexes, and at 15 it can do 26 points of damage, more than a Marauder or Warhammer at that range.  Of course, most veteran players realize that such a capability comes at the expense of all other factors.  That barrage shoots the heat up to a high but manageable +8 on top of any movement, and with 7.5 tons of armor if the poor mech ever gets within that 15 hex range it will get whooped pretty quick.  Jymset often talks of smart armor, and it’s interesting to think about that in terms of the quixotic Rifleman; as a ranged mech, it’s only moderately insane to put just two (2) points on each side torso rear, and four in the center.  To be sure, the medium lasers carried by all the light mechs of the day can punch through for a critical, but they face the fury of the Rifleman’s full arsenal in its flipped arms, and it makes way to put 15 points of armor on each front torso and 22 in the CT, which is almost respectable.  The other week spot is the 12 point legs, but again as a ranged mech the Rifleman should not be in kicking fights.

So, how does one use this monstrosity?  How do you even manage the guns?  The nice thing about the inefficient AC5s is low heat, so as long as the ten rounds for each gun last you can keep up a nice sustained fire, and backed by one LL and stationary (to make each shot count) that is a heat neutral barrage.  A slightly crazy pilot might try a pattern of all four guns and then just the two ACs to cool down, and if you have a terrain feature you can alpha and duck for cover if you want.  The bottom line is an average of about 18 damage in a shot.  Below the levels of the twin PPC mechs, but still quite useful in a support roll.  Keep the range open, and any light mech that tries an end run, hit him with all four barrels.  There’s also one odd positive that comes from the autocannons: because they are low heat and low ammo, they’ll tend to run dry right as enemies are closing and the armor is failing, making the Rifleman unexpectedly durable. 

The fluff does speak to the mech as an anti air platform, but judging something like that is always a trick, because the rules for fighters change more often than the rules for mechs (which have been more or less fixed since the Rifleman’s time 25 years ago).  Back in the day, any hit caused a critical as I recall, so it was best to use smaller long ranged guns, like the AC5.  Because it could track the whole sky with its flappable arms and hit out to 18 hexes (as much as any direct fire weapon at the time) it was a decent mech for the job.  A later change in critical rules made the Rifleman less potent, but it can still crit many aircraft; if in reading about a fighter you see that it fails Trace’s famous medium laser test, it will also fail the Rifleman test too, and those LLs are not hardly just window dressing either, able to crit most of the rest of the fleet.  A fighter’s best defense against the Rifleman is either to stay out of range, or just go right in for the kill and trust in its poor armor to fail before your fighter does. 

In the classic era, the Rifleman had two modifications, both trying to over come its perceived problems, and both by the Davions.  The first, and more comical, is the 3D, which follows the lesser known Davion passion of turning a mech that had once had autocannons or missiles into a flashbulb (also seen in the Marauder and Warhammer).  In an attempt to improve the Rifleman’s power, they did what any 6th grader would have done (and what I can remember historically doing at that age) and replaced the AC5s with PPCs, reasoning that the PPCs weigh less and do double the damage.  The problem came when they found room to add only five additional heatsinks, at the expense of the two medium lasers.  As a result, the attempt at a mini-Marauder or Warhammer ends up with even worse heat problems than its big brothers just from using its two PPCs.  Worst of all, even with the extra sinks it still can’t use both LLs, or even any two weapons at the same time thanks to the removal of the MLs, with out overheating at least a bit.  This mech is a mech to avoid.

However, if you want to take a Rifleman in the classic era, but you don’t want one that has massive heat problems and low armor, then you want to take the 3C.  Rather than using more lasers, it drops the old paired weapons for twin AC10s along side the MLs.  Each AC is given a full ton of ammo, and a ton of armor is added.  While the 3C gives up range and is still dangerously ammo dependant, being able to deliver a heat neutral 20 point blast on a mech that’s not as likely to be blown to bits in a single shot is a nice thing to have.  This is my Rifleman of choice in the classic era, though I do love to mix it the 3N, as its advantages of range and powerful energy weapons are a nice complement. 

The Clans were not kind to the Rifleman when they came.  To be fair, they are not a kind bunch, and most of the old mechs were left behind, but the Rifleman’s flaws were really magnified, and its few advantages were basically negated.  Range?  The 15 hex range of the LLs is the medium range of the Clan’s big lasers, and equal to the range of the ER MLs used as secondary guns.  Heat problems?  A Kit Fox can keep up a sustained barrage that’s more powerful at longer range with no heat problems, thanks to DHS.  Armor?  Sure, Clan mechs have low armor themselves, but they can chew through the Rifleman’s 7.5 tons of Hellbringer-ego-boost in a turn.  And power?  Well… lets not go there.  The IS did their best to make the Rifleman keep up.  They really did.  But, they needed to do better.

The 3N became the 5M, taking on the M in the pattern of mechs like the Archer who’s production moved to the FWL.  And like the Archer, it was a very basic upgrade.  An XL engine was used, apparently reasoning that one extra ton of armor would make up for the extra vulnerability.  The ACs, always really the primary weapons on a Rifleman anyway thanks to heat problems, were upped to Ultras for added damage and range, and DHS were added, a total of 12, to allow the LLs to become serious players.  The problem is, they left them as standard lasers.  While this makes the mech very cool running, able to pull of a running alpha for just +4, it make the mech feel distinctly medium ranged, which is not where a mech with just 8.5 tons of armor belongs.  People are constantly giving advice to keep Hellbringers at long range, and they can kill a mech in a single good salvo.  The Rifleman does not share that distinction, as even with both Ultras double tapping and the MLs in play, damage is 46 within 9 hexes; the Hellbringer can do that at 15 hexes, with a TC (and 3N like heat issues, to be fair).  But, at least they installed CASE, so if you take an ammo hit before you’ve fired all five rounds of ammo on Ultra mode, you won’t blow up.

Really, the best way to use this mech is to fire all five rounds of ammo, and then head for home (or the pearly gates, if you’re fighting the Clans).  Against an IS force, especially an older one, the Rifleman’s modernity can shine.  It retains its power, but it can use it more effectively thanks to the correction of its old heat problems.  But, the march of technology has cost it its long ranged edge that it could once employ, forcing it to get with in range of all of the newer high powered weapons.  Its better than its predecessor, to be sure, and by a large margin.  But it started from a bad place, and its not as much better as it needs to be to be a truly well rounded mech, or to move into its old role.

There’s one other note about its modernity: the armor.  Unlike the Rifleman’s original designers, who wisely identified the front torso as the place to put all the armor, the modern re-fitters added a ton or armor, or one and a half in the case of the other modern update the 5D, and guess how much made it to that front torso: zero.  Not one single point, while the rears are increased to a staggering 8 points each.  Even the head is un-enhanced in the 5M, and only to 8 in the D.  Either they really meant the new 5M to work as an infighter with its standard lasers and DHS, or they just forgot what the 3N’s designers knew: keep the enemy in front of you, and you don’t need rear armor.

Which brings us to that 5D, which tries in its way to do just that.  It starts out with the same formula as the 5M; XL engine, more armor (no CASE means 9 tons total) and two extra DHS, for 17 total.  That sounds pretty good.  Like the 5M, it leaves the LLs in place as standards, and it brings back the two MLs that were removed from the 3D.  Lastly, as the M upgraded the ACs, the D upgrades the PPCs to ERs.  With enough heatsinks to fire the ER PPCs, it is more of a stand off Rifleman, able to sit back and lob PPC shots into the battle.  But, the LLs are still wasted tonnage, and the armor is still low and with the odd distribution mentioned.  Its miles better than the 5M, with better range, endurance, and durability (just barely).  It is less powerful, since it can’t really do more than the ER PPCs at range or the lasers in close, but it can use it more effectively, since there’s no need or even desire to mix things up as with the M.  Sit back, relax, and hope to hell you’re working with some T-Bolts or other heavies that can do work.

When Phoenix rolled around, someone determined it was time to take the Rifleman seriously.  To start with, they identified the 3C as the best Rifleman up to that point, and based all three new designs on it; all mount two big cannons of some type, backed by some quantity of lasers.  They enhanced the armor significantly.  And in the case of the Davion variants they enhanced the mobility.  True to the phoenix spirit, the designers seem to have burned down the old ideas behind the 3N and resurrected these 3C based Super-Riflemen in its place.

The show room model is the ferocious 8D.  In the spirit of the 3C, its two big guns became RAC5s, with twin ER mediums backing them up.  Double heatsinks are used, allowing the cannons to fire full tilt all the time, and a full tilt standing alpha is heat neutral.  Six tons of ammo are provided allowing the RACs to be set free in battle. Jump jets are used to help compensate for the shorter range of the cannons relative to modern weapons, and an XL engine is used to save weight.  Best of all, the armor is increased to 12 full tons, a 60% increase over the old 3N. 

The 8D is far from a perfect mech.  Despite the jets, 4/6/4 is on the slow end for a 60 ton mech in the modern era, and 15 hexes is decidedly medium range.  But, the power is there as never before.  Each cannon can match the power of a full 3C, and a potential 70 points of damage at 12 hexes is just unworldly for a Rifleman.  If the situation calls for a good infighting mech, where once the Rifleman was the mech to avoid, now the 8D is a mech to strongly consider.

The Davions also developed the 6X (or perhaps 5X, as I’ve seen both) seemingly because they thought the Mandrill made Predator was a really swell mech.  Its cannons are two LB10s, backed by paired ER mediums and smalls.  A more direct port of the 3C, the X differs in its larger engine, using its XL to move 5/8.  With range at the low end of long and more modern speed, the X us a very flexible mech, though it does mount just 11.5 tons of armor, so its not quite as well protected as its brother. 

If the D is the short ranged new Rifleman and the X fits in the middle, the new 7M is the long ranged variant, and it delivers in that respect.  Using the FWL’s Light GR, it can hit out to 25 hexes, though for just 8 damage a shot.  The bulk of its damage comes in close, from six ER MLs that make it a real threat, if a bit of a heat hog despite its 11 double ‘sinks.  Though it mounts the least armor of the new models, just ten tons, both in that respect and in its weapons it retains the spirit more of the 3N, in being the sniper of the group.  Few mechs, even including Clan mechs, can return fire at 25 hexes, and so the 7M can offer support with much less chance of reprisal, while any enemy that wishes to close in to finish it off must face down a staggering array of MLs, offing quite the unappetizing choice to a would be assailant.  An ECM adds to the fun, though it can’t keep this XLed mech from being the weakest of the new variants in terms of total protection, especially since it remains just 4/6.  I love the LGR, and so I like this one the best, but its not a high intensity mech like its third generation brothers, and its not for everyone.

Most lately, the Rifleman has returned to its role as poster child for the AC5 (no other mech was silly enough to mount two of the inefficient bastards).  Both its Phoenix Upgrades use the light AC5, and several of them.

The 6D is seemingly a take on the 6X, with the same armor, XL engine, and twin ER MLs.  But, its replaced the excellent LB 10s with paired LAC5s, six tons of ammo for the damn things, and C3.  I can’t tell is this is expected to be the spotter or the sniper, since the 15 hex range of the LACs is wrong for either, but its clearly expected to use specialty ammo for those cannons.  As a light mech hunter, especially supporting a lance of lights with C3 or guarding a support lance with C3, it can shine using precision ammo, and engaging larger mechs it can try to make use of AP ammo to overcome its lack of power.  Aside from that, its quite the specialty unit, since it gives up range and concentration relative to the 6X (its on par with the 3C for power and range, with worse groupings), so it needs a specialty ammo gimmick to work. 

The 9T seems to be a home grown fourth generation model, as its not based on any of the newer designs.  It rejected the XL of all other modern Rifleman, as well as the big guns in favor of four light weapons: two LPPCs and two LAC5s, backed by two ER MLs.  Though it is the weakest Rifleman yet, it does use a TC to make up for its deficiency slightly, and though its got just 9.5 tons of armor, that armor is stealth (though placement is horrible, with too much in the legs).  Its hard to know what to make of the T, given its guns.  Its not a sniper or an infighter or an anti-air unit.  Its slow for a light hunter, short ranged for a support unit or a stealth unit, and with the armor on it actually has heat problems.  As near as I can tell, its just a case of new toy syndrome gone wrong.  If you have to use it, its natural habitat seems to be in the periphery, fighting antiquated mechs.  Even then, with so little power it promises to be a struggle, despite the accuracy advantages inherent in having both a TC and Stealth armor.  It’s a curiosity, but little more. 

In the end, the Rifleman is a mech that has had to redefine its role as time has gone on.  Never a stellar mech, revisiting what it meant to be a Rifleman gave the mech new life, and has ensured I think that it will be remembered not for its useless rear armor or the exploits of a novel character in a questionable mech, but for sterling battlefield performance.
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Captain
Posts: 2560

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

Most lately, the Rifleman has returned to its role as poster child for the AC5 (no other mech was silly enough to mount two of the inefficient bastards).

There's a guy outside the hangar who wants a word with you. Says his initials are "JM6-S". Smiley
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Lieutenant
Posts: 1211

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

You forgot to mention (or maybe deliberately left out) an oddball unnamed Rifleman variant from the early Snord's Irregulars sourcebook, a Marik variant with 4 AC/5. It wasn't clear from the context if these critters were a regular variant or a field refit, but several identical such 'Mechs featured in one scenario. The catch was that they had near-empty ammo bins (8 rounds of ammo total for all 4 guns if I remember correctly). No detailed stats were given, but I am fairly sure the MedLasers had to go in order to replace the Large Lasers with another pair of AC/5.
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Catalyst Demo Team
Posts: 5854
Fox Claw Mercs: Ripping Through Armor

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

You forgot to mention (or maybe deliberately left out) an oddball unnamed Rifleman variant from the early Snord's Irregulars sourcebook, a Marik variant with 4 AC/5. It wasn't clear from the context if these critters were a regular variant or a field refit, but several identical such 'Mechs featured in one scenario. The catch was that they had near-empty ammo bins (8 rounds of ammo total for all 4 guns if I remember correctly). No detailed stats were given, but I am fairly sure the MedLasers had to go in order to replace the Large Lasers with another pair of AC/5.
Maybe its was actually 4 AC/2?
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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 6704
Behold, I am come!

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

If you can somehow squeeze quad AC/5's on this thing it'd be a beast, but it doesn't work without denuding the armor, going XL, or no ammo. Four with 3-4 ammo bins would be a godsend to the specialty ammo crowd (CMMs)

I will say one thing about the ol' Rifleman... it makes a devestating backup mech to LRM-based fire support lances. If some enemy does make it to short range the Rifleman can tangle them up... otherwise keeping to the defensive and sniping with the ACs.

The 3D works a bit better on snow-based environments. It helps if you think of it as a mech designed with an LL + PPC main weaponry... only it has backups in case of crits or you lose an arm or something.
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Sergeant
Posts: 108

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

my first mech, though I have always removed the AC's with large lasers and more armor it might overheat a bit but in water its good
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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 8793
Da me mas Gasolina

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

There's a guy outside the hangar who wants a word with you. Says his initials are "JM6-S". Smiley

The Jager post dates the Rifleman, as I'd had unseen on the brain when I thought of that.  Only the Rifleman mounts two of The Autocannon.  The Jager also manages to be even more terrable than the Rifleman, making it even less memorable.

As to the Snord mech, I just ran down the record sheets, which don't list that mech.  If its not even clear what its got for guns, hard to say what I can say about it.
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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 7221

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

I seem to recall a variant with AC/2's instead of the 5's. Danged if I remember where I saw it.
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Captain
Posts: 2975

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

Quote
Legend Killer after all was quite an odd mech, with its Urbi-like AC10s pared with LLs,
actually, not AC10's. at that point in BT novels, all autocannon were implied to be firing the same caliber ammo, just at different burst sizes. so two AC-5's = 1 AC10, in terms of forensics. this was true even in the grey death novels as well, and even rears its head in later Stackpole novels.
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Captain
Posts: 2863
Hellions rule.. the rest.. drools.. :D

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

Great article for a great Mech. I used it shortly before at a con in a 4 on 4 setup and it delivered quite good support. It even survived against better enemy Mechs and gave its part to win. Smiley


The N is really a Mech not for starters, though. But it is very much fun. And it just has class.

Some of the newer variants make it worth a new try, but really, the N just says: oldskool. Cool
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Captain
Posts: 3125

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

I've found that simply replacing the AC/5s for AC/2s eliminates the heat problem quite well. The damage curve goes down, but frankly, 10 shots is anemic for the 3025 battlefield. Games (at least ones I've played in) can go on for 30 turns or more and I would prefer to have more ammo at range and do less damage than blow out quickly and have to withdraw from the field.

The AC/2 replacement allows for four heat sinks. You can also drop one of the Mediums for a ton of armor, which gets spread along the torso and upgrades the rear armor to 5 points per location. This will hold up against a single medium laser hit, which can be a life saver in situations where infantry or fast 'Mechs (Mongoose, Exterminator, Spider, etc.) get through.

All-in-all, I think you'll find it a good and simple improvement.
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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 6586
Gentleman Ranker: God ha' mercy on such as we

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

I have just one thing to remind you all about playing FlakMechs, and that is ANY hit these days will cause a PSR in atmosphere to any flyer, so those LGR's are going to be most nasty against fighters.

Also, most atmospherics have such tissue paper thin armor that any hit will remove all the armor on a location, and I pity the pilot in a Thrush going into anything where the enemy can shoot back.
Destroyer of Worlds, Taurian Boogeyman, Sworn defender of Catgirls
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Warrant Officer
Posts: 602
'Cause I don't shine if you don't shine

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman



The 3C was always a favorite of mine to take, *especially* after the specialized AC ammo came out. a low bv heavy that can pop two 10 point damage groups out to 15 hexes just seemed to work good with my forces...
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Captain
Posts: 2560

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

The Jager post dates the Rifleman, as I'd had unseen on the brain when I thought of that.  Only the Rifleman mounts two of The Autocannon.  The Jager also manages to be even more terrable than the Rifleman, making it even less memorable.

I guess it depends on when and how one first got in touch with the game. My oldest BT books are second-hand copies of the old unrevised 3025 and 3026 TROs, so since the former contains both the Rifleman and the JagerMech and even links them in terms of fluff, the two always kind of went together for me. (Not to forget that since my first and so far only boxed set was the fourth edition one, so the JagerMech is one of the very few designs I actually have a mini cardboard cutout of. Wink)

As for the Rifleman itself, I'll be honest and say that I haven't really used it much. There are a few homebrew variants, but most aren't terribly inspired -- the best of the bunch yet may be one that uses newtech and goes all-energy by mounting four light PPCs in the arms and two large lasers in the torso all slaved to a targeting computer (using a light engine and endosteel skeleton), but I haven't done much with that one either because I get bored of flashbulb designs too easily. (Bit of a shame on reflection. Maybe I should take that one out again for another run or two against the bot at least.)
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Lieutenant
Posts: 1211

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

My personal BattleTech philosophy, from roleplaying times in the good 'ole 3025 era, is to make do with what you have, and not try to optimize designs because swapping out weapons may be possible under game rules but not within the universe. Ever noticed how difficult modifications supposedly are? In our gaming group, non-standard equipment typically counted for twice the tonnage and was a bad maintenance headache.
So I've usually played with plain vaniall "real" -3N Riflemen.

I do agree with the notion that on paper, the (-3N) Rifleman can dish out substantial damage over acceptable ranges, at tremendous heat cost. While it is seriously hamstrung by its heat in a fire support role, it seems to be the a fair area denial platform against light 'Mechs attempting flanking maneuvers. Sort of a goalkeeper role where you need lots of firepower in one turn, or none at all otherwise.
However, in my experience, even this perceived niche of the Rifleman does not really exist. You can still flank it with light 'Mechs, all of which can easily outrun the Rifleman. Rarely will a Rifleman be able to deliver an alpha strike with better than a 7 target number, and the heat problem makes sustained alpha striking impossible.
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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 10983
Hunting for Adder skins

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

I would like to offer a correction, Iron Mongoose:
The 2 Large Laser, 2 PPC, 15 single heat sink Rifleman is the RFL-4D, not the
3D. And, it is the best of the classic Rifleman variants.
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Lieutenant
Posts: 1381

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

Thank you for this article; this is exactly what I was looking for when I requested it!

My only experience with the Rifleman is in a campaign, where another player briefly piloted an 8D.
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Lieutenant General
Posts: 25877
Avatar By Wombat

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman


The 3C was always a favorite of mine to take, *especially* after the specialized AC ammo came out. a low bv heavy that can pop two 10 point damage groups out to 15 hexes just seemed to work good with my forces...

mmmm autocannoy goodness  Drool
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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 7590
Whip it, Whip it good

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

Its hard to know what to make of the T, given its guns.  Its not a sniper or an infighter or an anti-air unit.  Its slow for a light hunter, short ranged for a support unit or a stealth unit, and with the armor on it actually has heat problems.  As near as I can tell, its just a case of new toy syndrome gone wrong.  If you have to use it, its natural habitat seems to be in the periphery, fighting antiquated mechs.  Even then, with so little power it promises to be a struggle, despite the accuracy advantages inherent in having both a TC and Stealth armor.  It’s a curiosity, but little more. 

fun `mech to use, and in the right hands can be devastating. MD in -9Ts ruin peoples' days. Especially if packing special ammo.

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Captain
Posts: 2484

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

A thing that always surprises me is that there is no version of the 9T without the Stealth Armor. I like the Rifleman and I am always tinkering with them.
To me it seems like a very playable alternative. (The 9T)
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Moderator
Posts: 2396
The Spanish Fire Magnet

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

Congratulations for your article! It is very, very good.

  The old Rifleman. A beautiful mech with poor stats. Where to begin? Low armor? Low heat dissipation? Lackluster weapons? Lackluster movement? 6 points of armor in the head? It seems that it is a very bad mech and I tought this for some time. Until I met a guy that knew how to use it. This mech is very good for teaching heat management. The boldest you became, the better.

  This mech has firepower. Use it. Don't be afraid to breach the 10 points heat barrier. It is a direct-fire support mech. Team it with an Archer an stay 10-12 hexes away from the battle. It will riddle the enemy with holes, some of them big in the old 3025 days. Don't use it as a Brawler, the minimun range, the average movement and the poor armor (the legs are also a big weak point) disqualify it in this role.

  The 3C is better, thanks to the twin AC10 whack without overheating. It seems that the special ammo turns it into a better mech in 3067+. I think it can work against light units, an interceptor, like the Menshen and Assassin. You have to park it in a good zone and fire at will when the light mechs came for the target you are protecting.

  The 4D is a joke. It cannot fire 2 of its main weapons without overheating. It can scare a lot light mechs with the big guns in 3025 but in 3050+ environments only the "mediocrity armor" can save it.

  The 5M solves the heat management problem creating (well, making worse) the survivality problem. Low armor and XL teamed with ammo. It is an upgrade, it can deliver more firepower without worries. But it is more fragile. The 5D is better, just because it can remain 23 hexes away and survive as an sniper. This is the good part. The bad one is that there are 15+ units with more firepower in the same range brackets. And more armor. And this is without the Clans involved.

  The PP ones are way better. The 8D is a nasty surprise. A Rifleman good for brawling. It is very good and I like it a lot. It looks a lot like the RAC Jägermech but it is nice to see a good Rifleman. The 6X is a good cavalry mech. It is fast,  has good weapons and armor. The 7M is also a good mech. It is very cheap, has long range weapons, good armor and ECM. Those mechs are a huge improvement over the original one.

  The new upgraded Riflemen are very different. The 6D is like a nostalgic version of the original. 4 LAC 5. It lacks firepower but gains a Targeting Computer and can use special ammo. It is fast, it is nasty, it has C3. In only needs more firepower to really shine.

  The 9T is weird. Stealth armor? Light PPC? TC? LAC? It is clear that we have a great example of new toy syndrome. And a Taurian one.

 
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Captain
Posts: 2484

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman


  The 9T is weird. Stealth armor? Light PPC? TC? LAC? It is clear that we have a great example of new toy syndrome. And a Taurian one.

 


Yes the Stealth Armor is weird but consider: A Targetting Computer and specialized Ammo !  Afro
Its just that dammed Stealth Armor.   Angry  Trinity Alliance Syndrome.

Good Article.
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Captain
Posts: 3125

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

I don't get it.. What's the problem with the Stealth armor? Seems fine to me.
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Captain
Posts: 2560

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

I don't get it.. What's the problem with the Stealth armor? Seems fine to me.

I think the issue is at least twofold:

First, the 9T's weapons are suited to engaging at medium-to-short ranges where its stealth will be good for little more than a +1 to be hit against many enemy weapons and the raw armor value will only last it for so long.

And second, it mounts the base ten double heat sinks and guns that in theory make good use of them without straining them overmuch -- twin LPPCs, ERMLs, and LAC/5s amount to 24 heat on a running alpha strike, putting you four over. That's easy to soak once or twice or fit into something like a 6/5 pattern, in principle...only then it also has stealth armor, which will add another ten points each turn it's active and make it little more heat efficient than the original 3N. So not only does the design only offer you six five-point plinks per turn at the best of times, but with stealth active you'll be looking more at an average of three or four much of the time, and that's just not so hot (pardon the pun) for a slow sixty-ton BattleMech.
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Captain
Posts: 2484

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

I think the issue is at least twofold:

First, the 9T's weapons are suited to engaging at medium-to-short ranges where its stealth will be good for little more than a +1 to be hit against many enemy weapons and the raw armor value will only last it for so long.

And second, it mounts the base ten double heat sinks and guns that in theory make good use of them without straining them overmuch -- twin LPPCs, ERMLs, and LAC/5s amount to 24 heat on a running alpha strike, putting you four over. That's easy to soak once or twice or fit into something like a 6/5 pattern, in principle...only then it also has stealth armor, which will add another ten points each turn it's active and make it little more heat efficient than the original 3N. So not only does the design only offer you six five-point plinks per turn at the best of times, but with stealth active you'll be looking more at an average of three or four much of the time, and that's just not so hot (pardon the pun) for a slow sixty-ton BattleMech.

What he said.
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Captain
Posts: 3125

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

What you're forgetting is well... tactics.

Against Clan opponents (or anyone with a range advantage, really), keep the Stealth armor on until you get within your Medium range. Turn it off when you expect close combat.

Every turn you will build 2 heat as a sniper, so by the time you're +6, drop one of the LPPCs in the bracket and you'll be back to +1 while dealing 15 damage. Not a whole lot but you also won't be getting hit. As the enemy approaches, with the Stealth off you generate 22 heat (without movement), so you're in a perfect heat bracket.

The Stealth armor works fine. You're just not using it correctly.

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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 8793
Da me mas Gasolina

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

Quite.  The T can use its 'main' guns, the PPCs and LACs, with just +2 heat standing, but it has to get to 15 hexes and it still only does 20 damage.  With the TC and Stealth, it will tend to have a +2 advantage in TNs over its opponents, but because its fairly slow the TNs will tend to be low, so its not as worth while as on a mech like a Fire Falcon or Locust.  So, it has to fall back on its armor, which would be terriffic on a level 1 Rifleman, but is less than any of the third generation veriants by a sizable degree.

The key problem is that there's no clear way to use it.  Its not really good at anything.  It has enough cool toys that its sort of fun to use, but thouse toys, brilliant though they are in the case of stealth armor, a targeting computer and specalty ammo, are let down by the fact that they don't have anything to work with.  
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Captain
Posts: 2484

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

Both LAC and LPC do not have that much range.
The Rifleman 9T is no real sniper.
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Captain
Posts: 3125

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

Both LAC and LPC do not have that much range.
The Rifleman 9T is no real sniper.

18 hexes is the standard PPC range.

I really don't have that big of a problem with this 'Mech. It works well with Lancemates and getting in to its desired range with Stealth. It really needs to work with a short-ranged deterrent, possibly an SRM Carrier or mobile, light Omni with tons of SRMs or Medium Lasers to protect it.
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Major
Posts: 3875

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

If you can somehow squeeze quad AC/5's on this thing it'd be a beast, but it doesn't work without denuding the armor, going XL, or no ammo. Four with 3-4 ammo bins would be a godsend to the specialty ammo crowd (CMMs)

I made this but i had to shift to L3 tech (XL gyro) and knocked the move down to a 3/5.  It has a light engine though..


Code:
ype/Model:    Untitled 'Mech
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3025
Config:        Biped BattleMech
Rules:         Level 3, Standard design

Mass:          60 tons
Chassis:       Endo Steel
Power Plant:   180 Light Fusion
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets:     None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type:    Standard
Armament:     
  4 Autocannon/5s
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Untitled 'Mech
Mass:          60 tons

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:  99 pts Endo Steel            14      3.00
 (Endo Steel Loc: 2 LA, 2 RA, 3 LT, 3 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Engine:        180 Light                    10      5.50
   Walking MP:   3
   Running MP:   5
   Jumping MP:   0
Heat Sinks:     10 Double [20]               9       .00
 (Heat Sink Loc: 1 RT, 2 Undist)
XL Gyro:                                     6      1.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors:                5      3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA    R: Sh+UA             12       .00
Armor Factor:  200 pts Standard              0     12.50

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Head:                      3          9     
   Center Torso:             20         29     
   Center Torso (Rear):                 10     
   L/R Side Torso:           14      21/21     
   L/R Side Torso (Rear):              7/7     
   L/R Arm:                  10      20/20     
   L/R Leg:                  14      28/28     

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Crits    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
2 Autocannon/5s          RA      2   60     11     19.00
  (Ammo Locations: 1 HD, 2 LT)
2 Autocannon/5s          LA      2           8     16.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                          4          75     60.00
Crits & Tons Left:                           3       .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        6,797,600 C-Bills
Battle Value:      921
Cost per BV:       7,380.67
Weapon Value:      898 / 898 (Ratio = .98 / .98)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 16;  MRDmg = 13;  LRDmg = 5
BattleForce2:      MP: 3,  Armor/Structure: 5/4
                   Damage PB/M/L: 3/2/2,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: MH;  Point Value: 9

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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 8793
Da me mas Gasolina

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

18 hexes is the standard PPC range.

I really don't have that big of a problem with this 'Mech. It works well with Lancemates and getting in to its desired range with Stealth. It really needs to work with a short-ranged deterrent, possibly an SRM Carrier or mobile, light Omni with tons of SRMs or Medium Lasers to protect it.

Part of the qustion is context.  If you look at it as a Tauran mech meant to fight pirates and other second rate troops, then all the fancy tech is over kill, and it still lacks for guns, as thouse LPPCs at 18 hexes combine for just ten damage.  Its got so much technology to fight pirates, it hardly seems worth it.

If its made to fight front line Davion designs, then it has to worry about ER lasers and PPCs, GRs and against any opponent LRMs with their medium range at 14 hexes, just inside LAC range.  To bring thouse LACs and their potentaly specal ammo into play, it has to risk being hit at medium range, with only a +1 from the Stealth.  It seems like its outclassed against real mechs.

Its not really a terrable mech.  Its just not an outstanding one.
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Captain
Posts: 3125

Re: Mech of the Week: Rifleman

Part of the qustion is context.  If you look at it as a Tauran mech meant to fight pirates and other second rate troops, then all the fancy tech is over kill, and it still lacks for guns, as thouse LPPCs at 18 hexes combine for just ten damage.  Its got so much technology to fight pirates, it hardly seems worth it.

If its made to fight front line Davion designs, then it has to worry about ER lasers and PPCs, GRs and against any opponent LRMs with their medium range at 14 hexes, just inside LAC range.  To bring thouse LACs and their potentaly specal ammo into play, it has to risk being hit at medium range, with only a +1 from the Stealth.  It seems like its outclassed against real mechs.

Its not really a terrable mech.  Its just not an outstanding one.

The specialty ammo is over-rated. I'd rather see this thing sport the LB-2X in place of those LACs, but such is life.

And your second paragraph makes sense. But what's all this complaint about the tech? It's a $6 million C-Bill 'Mech. That's bargain basement for a Heavy. So I agree it's not optimal, but it's definitely not useless, especially for the cost/damage ratio.
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