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Warrant Officer
Posts: 681
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For anyone who was in the miniature area of Gencon either playing games there or who ran events there, here are a couple of questions.
First, how much room was there in the miniatures convention hall/portion?
Were there open tables available or were all of the tables used? If the gaming hall was filled meaning all of the tables appeared used, then I will not even bother. But, if there were multiple tables open during the con, then it might be worthwhile to try hosting some events.
Are most players willing to pay extra money to play in the games? (If GenCon generally charges $2 then I would charge $4 allowing me to keep $2 difference. If GenCon was still in Milwaukee, I would be content with the free admission that I would earn; but if I have to drive to Indy, get a hotel room, pay for food, and deal with the hassel of moving supplies each and every night, etc I would want to recoup some of my costs. Just being honest here.)
Are the battletech games filled or are there openings for walk-ons? if the events are filled, then there is potentially a need for more games. If walk-ons are accepted, this could mean that the registration process indicates there are more then enough battletech events available.
What are some of the common prizes awarded if any at the events?
Is there enough time to set up and take down your event(s) terrain and other supplies or do you feel rushed at the opening and closing of the miniature hall?
Thank you for your responses.
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LBI Shareholder
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 8559
Hold it high with pride!
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If you book an event at the convention then they should provide you with table space. If you just dump your stuff on an "open" table and run a game, you're probably grabbing some space that somebody paid for.
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Warrant Officer
Posts: 681
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No, I would try to run 10 tables, one would be a command table and the other nine would be one to two level II's defending against the Clans. The command table would assign the artillery, air strikes, and reinforcements while hopefully avoiding a headhunter strike.
So if I were to host such an event, I would definitely register the event. So, the first question is, is there a potential need for additional miniatures gaming. (If there are several tables open during the Con you could make the argument that there is a need.)
The next question, are players willing to pay extra for events? I would try to run this event 2 or three times a day on Th, Fri, and Sat so I will incur some expenses and I would like to try to recoup these expenses.
I am also wondering about the time given to the gamemasters for setting up and taking down their terrain, etc.
I have not been to GenCon at Indy and I will not attend unless I host an event. So, I have no idea in regards to what to expect. Hence these questions.
(Yes; I know that I can one table over the three days, but where is the challenge in that? I want to watch and listen to a ComGuard Precentor and his command team deal with requests for artillery, air support, and any other help that can be given as the Clans either Wolf, Steel Vipers, or Jade Falcon attack and attempt to break through the ComGuard positions.)
So, each table could have a binary of mechs attack the two Level II's of Com Guards and then on one table lets say table 5, the Clans attempt to push through another trinary of mechs. So; on table five, the ComGuard's two Level II's are facing 25 Omni-mechs.
Some players might honestly quit while others would actually enjoy the challenge. As the commander of the ComGuards on the field would I issue a batchall asking for one on combat or would I would shoot at any opportunity presented?
How would the Clanners respond? Do the Steel Vipers employ a hit and run strategy where every ComGuard target can be attacked by only one Steel Viper mech per turn, but every turn the ComGuard target can be fired upon by a different Steel Viper mech? (In an attempt to satisfy the Viper Coil and Maw tactic.)
Would the Jade Falcons follow the traditional Zellbringen concept or would they follow my version of Devlin Hazen's flexible tactics?
Would the Wolves concentrate fire in an attempt to destroy the ComGuards or would they fight one on one?
How would artillery and air support work for each team?
Just ideas, but I need to have a basic understanding of the miniature gaming area from someone who was actually there and provide comments regarding their observations.
Remember the command team? How does the ComGuard Commander respond? (Will he/she purposely lose table five because he/she decides the loss of one table will help guarantee winning the other eight?)
Thank you again.
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Top Shelf Killa
Catalyst Demo Team
Posts: 15065
LARP'ing is fun!
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No, I would try to run 10 tables, one would be a command table and the other nine would be one to two level II's defending against the Clans. Keep dreaming. We did not have 10 tables worth of extra space. I think we had, maybe five, maybe six, tables tops and that's counting the ones that people were using for supplies and their stuff. |
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Warrant Officer
Posts: 681
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Thank you for the answer. That's what I needed to know.
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Freelancer
Posts: 6782
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First, how much room was there in the miniatures convention hall/portion?
Were there open tables available or were all of the tables used?
Fairly uniformly occupied most of the time. If the gaming hall was filled meaning all of the tables appeared used, then I will not even bother. But, if there were multiple tables open during the con, then it might be worthwhile to try hosting some events.
That's not really a consideration. If you register an event with GenCon, they ensure that there's space for it through scheduling. You can make requests, of course, as to timing and location, but will be at the mercy of their scheduling unless you intend to buy space. The normal setup is no cost to you, and the event is billed at the standard price to players. If you want to charge more, you can, but GenCon takes their share, and you still get scheduled by them. If you want to buy space for yourself, I think you'll not find that economical unless you intend to host games in that space for the majority of the Con. Are most players willing to pay extra money to play in the games?
No, unless there's something obviously cool about the event, or unless there's prizes announced. Doubling the price per 'hour' so to speak is likely to reduce attendance unless there'sd some obvious incentives. It's difficult to predict though, since it also depends how many other BT events fill up in the same time slot, causing more people to choose a higher priced event, rather than do nothing. Additionally, it's impossible to predict how many people you might attract using generic tickets, since that often depends on how your event looks, and how much fun you and the players seem to be having. If GenCon was still in Milwaukee, I would be content with the free admission that I would earn; but if I have to drive to Indy, get a hotel room, pay for food, and deal with the hassel of moving supplies each and every night, etc I would want to recoup some of my costs. Just being honest here.)
I don't think anyone who's put in the time and effort to volunteer at GenCon is going to disagree with you on the investment part of it. Do note that if you, as a volunteer, log enough events, with enough players, and enough hours, that you get some comp from GenCon towards a hotel room. How much comp, and how many events/hours/players you'd need in 2010 is impossible to predict, you'll want to email the Event Coordinator over yonder with that question. Are the battletech games filled or are there openings for walk-ons?
Attendance was pretty darn spiffy in 2009, with some of the tourney events recuperating now that there was some pretty awesome prize support. There's vicious and evil plots afoot to expand the CGL footprint next year at GenCon, but its dependent on many factors. What are some of the common prizes awarded if any at the events?
For mini games in general it's all over the place. For private individuals to host events, prize support is rare, given the costs the individual GMing has, as you noted above. There's exceptions of course. I've seen minis handed out to players. CGL hands out gift certificates (redeemable at the booth and online at BattleShop), and at the 09 Con, players got to keep the painted minis they 'killed' in the Bloodright, and there was a trophy for the Solaris Melee Challenge. The winner of the Tournament got a chess set made out of minis, WoB vs Stone themed. Is there enough time to set up and take down your event(s) terrain and other supplies or do you feel rushed at the opening and closing of the miniature hall?
Tough to describe, since we usually get a lot of prep work done on Wednesday, and tend to get started about 2 hours prior to Thursday. It'd also depend whether you, as an individual, are the only ones using your tables, or whether you're following someone else' event. To reduce that risk, you may want to consider scheduling early, so you have plenty of time to set up. No, I would try to run 10 tables, one would be a command table and the other nine would be one to two level II's defending against the Clans. The command table would assign the artillery, air strikes, and reinforcements while hopefully avoiding a headhunter strike.
For GenCon standards, that's a huge amount of tables, requiring about 60 players to get that amount assigned. And that's presuming 10 'small' tables. is there a potential need for additional miniatures gaming.
I have a hard time answering that one. I'm inclined towards yes, but I can't predict whether you'll get attendance or not. My advice is: start small. The next question, are players willing to pay extra for events? I would try to run this event 2 or three times a day on Th, Fri, and Sat so I will incur some expenses and I would like to try to recoup these expenses.
Given the footprint, I would expect you to have really low attendance if you run the exact same event every day, most of the day. You'd absolutely need incentives such as prizes to expect decent attendance. Your setup does not suggest a high degree of replayability, nor does it seem to work along a tournament style concept, either of which you'd need to land that many players. I have not been to GenCon at Indy and I will not attend unless I host an event.
Have you considered applying to the Catalyst Demo Team? a ComGuard Precentor and his command team deal with requests for artillery, air support, and any other help that can be given as the Clans either Wolf, Steel Vipers, or Jade Falcon attack and attempt to break through the ComGuard positions.)
Sounds interesting. Have you run that setup before, at home, or at a store or local Con? Given the complexity, it's definitely something you'd want to playtest a couple of times prior to hosting it in a setting where players play for attendance. Especially if you believe there's a risk of players quitting on you, you'll want to make sure you don't hurt your ticket sales too much. Once people drop a ticket with you, you'll want to make sure your event's designed to keep them interested and happy for the duration. Paul |
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Warrant Officer
Posts: 681
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I appreciate the answers Paul.
The concept was tested/played somewhat this past October.
Poor advertising on my part resulted in a low turnout but I basically had the tables, miniatures, and the cheap fiction to make a go of it.
Some positives and some negatives from the event. One or two of the features will not be tried again and a couple of features will be refined.
Ultimately, the idea is nothing more then multiple games of battletech with all of the tables requesting support and a commander having to allocate his/her resources over the various tables and then watching what happens.
You could do the same thing with rolling dice or creating charts beforehand, but this version would utilize a human element.
I am considering the joining the Catalyst demo team but I haven't yet decided.
Thanks again for the responses.
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Lieutenant
Posts: 1056
ESOB at large
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Would this mean that all 10 tables would need to stay in sync with each other? AKA turn 15 ends at the same time on all of the tables at the same time?
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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 7198
Gotta be a way to cram on a few more guns here...
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Would this mean that all 10 tables would need to stay in sync with each other? AKA turn 15 ends at the same time on all of the tables at the same time?
That's a recipe for the slowest game ever! |
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Captain
Posts: 2125
Battletech and Paintball, life is good.
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No, I would try to run 10 tables, one would be a command table and the other nine would be one to two level II's defending against the Clans. The command table would assign the artillery, air strikes, and reinforcements while hopefully avoiding a headhunter strike.
The next question, are players willing to pay extra for events? I would try to run this event 2 or three times a day on Th, Fri, and Sat so I will incur some expenses and I would like to try to recoup these expenses.
Understand that gaming at GenCon is usually set up in four hour time slots. That being said, you really think you can complete 10 tables of Battletech along with the coordination of all the players in four hours and then do it repeatedly two to three times a day? Unless they are lance on lance sized battles or less for each table, I don't see that hapening. However, if they are bigger battles like the canon events which have 20 players to each of the two tables, you could do the same as they do it, run the event over three days with fewer tables to run your campaign. Like three tables on Thursday for two to three gaming slots (8-12 hours), then three tables again on Friday for two to three gaming slots and have the finale of four tables for two to three gaming slots on Saturday (Saturday GenCon is packed with people looking to play) I would think that would be your best bet on running your 10 tables, just spread them out over three days. Just trying to help is all. Force |
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Warrant Officer
Posts: 681
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No, this event would not need to stay in-sync. Or at least, not in an event where you would only have 3 hours to play. From my experience running events, the fewest number of turns ever played in one of our games was six turns and I only remembering this happening once. (Luckily, the player causing the slow play was on the losing side.)
The most turns played at a GenCon event was 10 turns in a 3 hour or 3 1/2 hour time period. Most games would have lasted the desired eight turns with a couple lasting nine turns and a couple lasting only seven. (Since several of games were a tournament style event, we designed the games to last around eight turns which we believed would allow the teams to accomplish their objectives in the alloted time frame. Therefore, usually one team had an advantage if the game would last less then the eight turns and one team would have an advantage if the game lasted more then eight turns.)
If I were to host a battletech event at a hotel or a game store with no time limt, then yes there would have to be some sort of a turn in-sync operation. But, if you were ahead of everyone else, feel free to walk around and look at the other tables. Grab some food and soda, and relax. Feel free to make comments both good and bad.
(Technically you could make it more of a challenge for the commander by having the command team in a different location with a laptop, cell-phone, and digital camera with a gamemaster approved runner. The runner may take 10 pictures per table and this represents a satellite or a recon aerospace fighter. The runner returns with the pictures, the pictures are uploaded to the laptop, the commander gives the support poker chips to the runner to give to the ground commanders and then the runner takes the next set of photos.)
I could also slim it down by only using two, three or even four tables, (X combat tables and one HQ) and then roleplaying any situations to simulate the confusion and demands that might occur at the ComGuard HQ.
But these are ultimately ideas and will be modified and hopefully improved as necessary and maybe this event will never be played or maybe this event will occur in 2012. Who knows.
But I needed some reports of what GenCon is like so I can consider trying to host the event at GenCon, scrapping the idea (unlikely), or finding some other venue to host the event.
So thanks again.
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Warrant Officer
Posts: 681
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Well, I would have a couple of other GM's helping out.
But for the past October event, I basically just walked around and watched and when necessary told the players which artillery rounds requests were satisfied.
In this scenario, one GM would need to assist the Precentor and then probably two to four GM's to oversee the actual combat games.
Don't forget, each table would still have their own objectives to try to satisfy as well.
It sounds complicated, but for the players, it ultimately boils down to several related games of battletech going on at once, and my team commander is requesting support and his/her requests might be approved or denied.
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Freelancer
Posts: 6782
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In this scenario, one GM would need to assist the Precentor and then probably two to four GM's to oversee the actual combat games.
Needing 6 GMs for the event will make it very undesirable as a concept to CGL. If you were to run it by yourself, where would you get these people from? It sounds complicated, but for the players, it ultimately boils down to several related games of battletech going on at once, and my team commander is requesting support and his/her requests might be approved or denied.
Why would any ever be denied if the tables aren't in turn sync? Paul |
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Warrant Officer
Posts: 681
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One of the ideas behind this game is that your requests for support will be denied. The players will be screaming for support or cheering when they get some support.)
The precentor or force commander might decide that your table can handle the situation or that a different table has a more pressing need for support so your requests for artillery and air support is denied. Or you might get artillery support for turns 3 and 4 but the force commander declines your request support for turn 5 because the force commander sees a pressing need on table 8 for support.
But as for the game itself, I don't think anyone needs to worry. It will be x number of games of battletech requesting support from a divisional commander. The divisional commander will allocate the support as he/she sees fit.
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Warrant Officer
Posts: 681
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Here are some photos from some of the events that we have done in the past.
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Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 11005
Hunting for Adder skins
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One of the ideas behind this game is that your requests for support will be denied. The players will be screaming for support or cheering when they get some support.)
The precentor or force commander might decide that your table can handle the situation or that a different table has a more pressing need for support so your requests for artillery and air support is denied. Or you might get artillery support for turns 3 and 4 but the force commander declines your request support for turn 5 because the force commander sees a pressing need on table 8 for support.
And, there will be cries of favourtism...The only way to handle something like that is to make the support random, or have reinforcements come at pre-determined points(or on random die rolls after pre-determined points.) |
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Warrant Officer
Posts: 681
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Let there be cries of favourtism. As the division commander or more accurately HQ team they have to look at the larger picture.
For our games in Milwaukee, there was one player who always complained about the games that we created/hosted but if there was an opening he was the first one there to play.
As the ComGuard HQ you have your mission(s) and if you are facing the Wolf Clan on their day one of operations this is what you might encounter:
Table 1 has 25 Omni-mechs (Timberwolves and Gargoyles)
Tables 2,3,4,5,6,8,9 had 10 Omni-mechs Timberwolves, Fenris, others,
and table 7 has 12 Omni-mechs: 1 Dasher, two Koshis, three Ullers, four Pumas, one Fenris and one Linebacker.
Most players would consider table 1 to be the primary threat and table 7 with its preponderance of light mechs to be the least likely threat. So, most players as the HQ players will send all of the support available to table one while still distributing support to the other tables in a smaller degree and possibly even ignoring table 7 if the ComGuard mechs appear to be holding their own.
This is what the Wolf Clan was waiting for. Because if there is a three turn delay between the time the support is requested and when the support arrives, on turn six the Wolf Clan aerospace units will finally make their appearance and bomb/strafe or strike the ComGuards defending table seven and in the process possibly destroy ComGuards. Any survivors would not be able to request artillery or air support to prevent the Koshi's from getting through the front lines.
Once the Koshi's are through, the Koshi's can begin giving Khan Natasha Kerensky the necessary information to allow her 13th Wolf Guards to begin attacking individual battalions/Level III's at her choosing.
Granted, the HQ team might have done something different if they noticed that the Koshi's were painted in a different camo pattern, but you never know. (The 12 omni-mechs however was a significant hint in my opinion with the limited information provided.)
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Lieutenant
Posts: 1056
ESOB at large
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It sounds like a system that would be very fun to play with a group that you know and not a group of complete strangers.
It also sounds like a system that really needs to have the games somewhat synced. Otherwise if a table is too far ahead of the rest, they will get a larger share of the resources (or the opposite if you are intentionally holding stuff back from them since you don't know what other tables are going to need on turn 5 when they are still on turn 3 and by the time everybody is at turn 5, the speedy table is on turn 8 and it is too late to do anything)
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Warrant Officer
Posts: 681
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Technically, I could try this in 2010. HQ - Word of Blake Chicago HQ - Coalition Milwaukee Commando - Seattle (battletech) Commando - Denver (battletech) Commando - New York (battletech) Commando - Richmond (battletech) Commando - Dallas (battletech) Commando - Phoenix (battletech) Each commando creates a battalion on battalion size battle using Galatea as the basis. Each commando sends the forces to both HQ's. (Intel is accurate for this battle, so no surprises here.) HQ's agree to a set number of artillery pieces and air support per side. HQ's inform commandos which company or two Level II's will start on the game board for each team. (The commandos labeled (battletech) created the scenarios for each battle. The HQ's will provide additonal support to help them accomplish their team's mission.) HQ's determine one table where the remaining two companies may join in the attack. HQ - Milwaukee coalition might tell Commando - Seattle to use all of the coalition forces whereas HQ Word of Blake might tell Phoenix to activate all of their troops. (Or they could possibly both tell Richmond to activate both companies as a reinforcements. But the key is only one table maybe fully deployed for both sides.) Using gmail, yahoo email, cell phones, laptops, etc, both sides place their starting companies on the field per the rules that local commando created and the game begins. Both sides starts sending intel and requests to HQ, and HQ responds. The commando on the scene makes sure that it is implemented correctly. Example: Milwaukee, this is Denver. Requesting five tagged arrow IV missles. Denver, Milwaukee. Please use agreed upon authentification procedures. I do not wish to bomb my own troops. Milwaukee, this is Denver. Turn one is Green Apple. Request five tagged arrow IV missiles. Denver, this is Milwaukee turn one response is Jolly Good. Unable to grant request for five missiles. Richmond is dealing with an entire battalion. I am sending you two missiles. Note, I have two Lucifiers with cluster bombs entering the arena next turn. Remember, the time delay between requesting air support and actual arrival is two turns. Artillery is inbound. Artillery should arrive on turn four. Also, I need a better photo of the reinforcements deployed against you. Milwaukee out. That might be easier then a GenCon event. I just won't hear the screaming for support.  |
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Master Sergeant
Posts: 334
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I was at the October Game and I have a few tips to hep out. I played on the Comstar Vers Blake table I think it was Iowa III, but when I first saw the mechs against us and saw out goal to to destroy them I knew we stood no chance after the first 2 rounds we only got 1 of 6 art rounds to our table. We were out weighed, Im guessing by a good 200tons and our mechs were mostly 3050 mechs that were facing a majority of 3060 C3I mechs that were able to get 5 rounds of Art the first round and 3 the second. I would suggest that if you have the mission goals that the forces be more balanced and the Artillery maybe used to balance it out.
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Warrant Officer
Posts: 681
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No, I screwed up there. Like I said, there was some good and some bad with the event. Some things worked, and some things did not. Your deployment against the Bastards I think allowed the Lyrans to take on the Glory Seekers which gave the Lyrans a significant advantage in my opinion. While the WIE took on the MD.
The random deployment that occurred will not be used again by me in the future. I liked parts of the idea and I disliked parts of the idea. I basically tried to simulate the idea that Victor planned the invasion and the placement of the coalition forces without regard to the actual Word of Blake's deployment. In addition, the random assignment of the Word of Blake to the area of operations would simulate a deployment of the Word of Blake forces that disregarded the deployment of the coaltion forces.
For gamemastering an event, it will definitely be easier to have the forces generally assigned before hand so you already know which factions will be fighting which factions.
Back to your event, had I given you the air power as originally envisioned, you probably would have won. But, I thought the air power would have been too powerful. I should have compromised and given your team only three Lucifers airstrikes. The strafing variant was one of the assigned aircraft, a Lucifer carrying 10 cluster bombs was a second, and then one of the 3025 variants. So again, I screwed up here.
But, remember how each table was given a different point value?
Somerset which was your table was worth only 8 points.
The MD-WIE battle on Illinois I was worth 45 points and was considered a draw.
The MD-WIE battle on Illinois III was worth for 15 points
The Lyrans fought the Glory Seekers on MN I for 25 points
Even if I consider your table a loss for the full eight points, and assign minor victory conditions for Illinois III and MN I (15 points plus 25 points)/2 your team gained 20 points. The coalition still won the scenario for day 1.
Lockfield was given to the WOB because the Lyrans lost a company of Rommel/Patton tanks. But technically, the Word of Blake only controlled maybe seven squares (15 inches by 15 inches of the city's forty squares. So, that victory given to them for the Rommel/Pattons can be argued as the Word of Blake never made a significant attempt to take the city.
Overal, the military losses suffered by both sides were not truly significant and no significant economic damage was inflicted.
Victor was not killed. The WIE did not take excessive losses in the liberation effort.
For the Word of Blake, the MD operative in the 8th SOG was not revealed so overall there were no political repercussions for either side here.
So, yes you lost the battle for Somerset, (blame me for the aerospace action), but overall, the Word of Blake's 8th Special Operations Group failed in its mission to significantly damage the Coalition forces. However, the 8th SOG was also able to escape in very good order and the MD battalion assigned to this operation would be able to reinforce the 43rd Shadow division in the near future.
So the Word of Blake ultimately suffered either a draw or a marginal defeat. They failed to inflict significant damage to the Coalition but they were able to withdrawal in good order.
The Coalition did not suffer any political repercussions, minimal losses, and the planet was ultimately liberated. I would give the coaltion a marginal victory because the 8th SOG was able to withdrawal and therefore remains a threat to the Lyran Alliance. In addition, the MD suffered minor losses and therefore would be able to continue on with their purpose of reinforcing the 43rd Shadow division.
But, had I done a better job of advertising, who knows what would have happened.
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Private
Posts: 25
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I to played that scenario with comstar vs. WOB. The airstrikes may have helped, but the forces should have been more equalized. The randomness of the artillery was fun, made the game really interesting. Hope you decide to host this type of scenario at gencon, but I agree that it should be downsized to 2-4 tables.(just my 2 cents). Would have been nice to have a stronger showing from our sat. gaming group from G-town.
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